[Charles Skowron]

I might not agree with you completely on what can be done to improve things in karting, but I will agree with you that the situation is pretty messed up.

And you made the right point; there was such a laser focus by the industry on the top-level they overlooked the base for a long time. I understand that when the economy nose-dived in 2008, the high-$$$ racers was the only recession-proof segment of the sport that karting could rely on to keep afloat, because everything below it was decimated. (And even then, the national series still took a big hit.) That was ten years ago, and a lot of decisions made by the industry since then didn’t seem to take to into consideration how it would effect the sport at the grassroots.

Sure the Briggs 206 has helped, but look beyond it and things aren’t all rosy. In some cases the 206 hasn’t so much brought growth but managed to save some clubs that would otherwise have gone extinct.

[Charles Skowron]

Forward the interview from 3 weeks ago and start at 24:20 . I think the answer is pretty obvious, from Tom himself.

https://new.ekartingnews.com/2017/05/22/superkarts-usa-video-tomversation-skusa-pro-tour-springnationals/

[Charles Skowron]

[quote quote=81646]Charles,

….First, thanks for the input and info about scheduling. With all the “modification” you have done above you are either an engine builder or Todd and I touched a sore spot……

[/quote]

No, all of the modifications and edits on my posts were because, after almost 4 years, I still haven’t figured out how to use the “quote” button on this revised forum.

-C

[Charles Skowron]

If those are your only two choices, then it’s a no-brainer: Shifter Kart.

Even if the DD2 is potentially less maintenance than a 125 shifter, and even if a you would only need to deal with 2 gears instead of the shifter’s 6, the DD2 is such an oddball class of kart here in the U.S., you could potentially run into problems such as finding other DD2 racers to compete with, and resale value of the kart if you want to sell it. The second point may be even more exacerbated, now that the importer of the DD2, Maxspeed, has just recently closed operations. That could also lead to parts availability problems in the future.

The DD2 is direct-drive instead of chain-driven, which every other racing kart out there is propelled by. While that may seem like a plus, there’s a disadvantage in that a DD2 requires a unique chassis different from every other kart class and chassis now racing.

[Charles Skowron]

[quote quote=81593]

Robert Lawson wrote:

The WKC folks won’t come (they didn’t come in 06′ either) and the CES guys won’t travel that far.

WTF? It’s right off Exit 1 of the PA Turnpike (I-76). They’ll drive to freaking Daytona every year no problem but suburban Pittsburgh is somehow out of the question?

It will be interesting to see the turnout for this race. I’m hoping “the track formerly known as Beaverun” becomes a permanent fixture on the schedule.

[/quote]

If Pitt had a race back in 2006, it likely wasn’t well attended because a road race on only the North Circuit isn’t exactly a “destination track”.

And it’s a real possibly that there might not be many WKC racers at this year’s Pitt event on the Full Course either, because the final WKC and DKC/AKRA events of the season managed to be scheduled on the exact same weekend.

-C

[Charles Skowron]

–

[Charles Skowron]

David Cole wrote:

Do you think karting should ever lower the age limits in the Senior categories?

 

They should be higher….

That may seem befuddling to some. But the age brackets in various karting classes are screwed-up, and do not reflect the different needs and motives of all of the different types of karters, and the reality of the sport today.

Ideally it would be:

Cadet/Mini/Sportsman (or whatever you call it): Age 8/9-12

Junior: Age 13-18, (possibly even 13-21 or something around there)

Senior : Age 18/19+ (or 21+)

Masters: Age 40+

But with one notable change, and before a bunch of Junior-level parents start jumping up and down about the notion of having their kid having to race a junior kart until they’re 18: Have the Junior Classes run Senior-level karts/engines.

13 too young for a senior class kart? We already have 14 year-olds racing full-blown 125 shifters now. Would the difference between 13 and 14 be that much? There are Road Racing Motorcycle classes for racers that age now, and how much HP does an Outlaw Late Model put out as referenced in the story above?

This class-system would be for Sprint karting only, and wouldn’t apply to Road Racing/Enduro; which is an entirely different situation.

[Charles Skowron]

They are moving it, right across the street from the Convention Center.

I understand the reasoning for moving it, but the irony of both SKUSA and the Rotax series both touting their big races being on the Strip (as well the defunct CKI series in Vegas previously): the venue that had the best view of the LV Strip was the one actually off of it, at the Rio.

[Charles Skowron]

Why did the 80/85 shifters die off? Part of it might be when shifters took off nationally. Before that there were Senior-class 80s on the regional and club level all over. But when shifters hit the national level, it eventually morphed into: Senior class race 125s, Juniors race 80. That perception seemed to trickle down to local level afterwards.

But probably the biggest reason for their disappearance? TaG. It offered about the same power as an 80, but in a ready-made package specifically for karting. The club racers that would have raced an 80 shifter gravitated over to TaGs, eventually the 80cc Juniors at the national level did as well, until most of the 80s were gone, except for a few diehard areas like NorCal, and MSOKC in Ohio.

And I’ll never understand why they fell out of favor either. Let’s face it, many of us would have a much better time racing an 80 shifter than getting overwhelmed in a breakneck 125. And they’re a much more appropriate vehicle for a newbie driver looking for a shifter kart experience and are dead set on that only. Everyone I’ve read discuss it mention how the 80 engines’ smaller size is a better fit for a kart. Best reason of all, their lower HP levels and subsequent top speeds mean that a front-brake chassis isn’t required, whereas in a 125 it’s mandatory.

It doesn’t take a genius to know that the lower entry costs from a rear-brake only chassis would make the class a lot more appealing to some.

But alas, it’s karting.

———————

C. Skowron

[Charles Skowron]

Tony Zambos wrote:

….As for newbies in r-racing, mandatory front brakes. It too easy for an aggressive new comer with no front brakes to chase an experienced driver with fronts way too deep into a corner. You know who’s going to lose in that scenario. Where an experienced RR-driver might be able to save his butt in a case a brake failure, a newbie with a single braking system is not going to have the experience save him/herself and the others around them.

 

Requiring new road racers to run front/dual brakes, and not experienced RR drivers, defeats the whole purpose and intent of considering “rear brake only O.K.” in the first place.

——————————————–

C. Skowron

 

 

[Charles Skowron]

So after reading some of the comments from various racers on T.J.’s Facebook post about the show, and all I can say what did they expect?

A few comments indicated some were honestly hoping this would be a perfect vehicle to promote karting. Other comments suggested that some karters who are heavily involved in the sport believe there is a halo surrounding it, and thereby deserves preferential treatment. No it’s not; it’s just go-karts. And as everybody knows who participates, there are some people in it who act very stupidly at times. Perfect Reality TV fodder.

In a world where shows like Dance Moms and Toddlers and Tiaras exsist, and get A LOT of attention, what is it about karting that makes people think it would be treated any differently by reality television?

I didn’t watch the show yet, and it’s only one episode so far; but from Willis’ description of it, plus the fact they quoted the $225K right at the very beginning, suggests that the big theme the show is going for is a good-ol’ regular all-american family that everyone can relate to (the Tavalles), trying to compete in an environment full of rich, arrogant snobs (Bromantes). Throw in a few Psycho Parents, and the “Girl Power” angle (Sasha) that is standard for shows like this, and you have the typical formula for a reality show of this type.

The reality may be different from what they portray, but why would the producers care? As long as it gets ratings. Hate to break it to the people who thought this would be an ideal venue to promote karting, but this is not Public Television. They are not there for a human interest story. They are there to make money, and the way they make money is ratings. Look at the current landscape of Reality TV, ratings means deceit, treachery, backstabbing, and most of all people looking like a bunch of buffoons in front of the camera.

[Charles Skowron]

T.J. Koyen wrote:

When 80% of the topics on this discussion board are from armchair experts proposing new ways to improve the sport, I’m surprised that this show isn’t getting more people worked up.

 

Well of course a lot of us on the forum are armchair experts. If it costs $225,000/yr to race a go-kart how many can afford to race? :P :P

[Charles Skowron]

…..I have raced in all forms of racing and Karts are by FAR THE CHEAPEST. A set of rocker arms and shafts for the funny car are as a kart is and from there it all goes up in costs if i pop an engine it can cost 50,000 how many years of engines races parts etc can you go through with 50 grand and cars cost over 100 grand so we make no money at it But Dam we have allot Fun…..

.
.
[b]I’ll never understand the reasoning of people who compare a multi-million dollar professional motorsport with grassroots-level karting.[/b]

———————–
C. Skowron #15

[Charles Skowron]

I don’t know how many rental karters K1/CRG plan to pull in to competitive karting when the rental crowd sees the $5,000 price tag for a chassis, and the $700 tag for one ceramic brake rotor.

[Charles Skowron]

Not to mention a steel tubeframe is about the simplest chassis you could make, and the current karts in that form are still way more expensive than they should be. The price of a carbon chassis would be obscene.

Plus, the strength and stiffness that CFRP can obtain, might not exactly be beneficial to a kart chassis. The peculiar nature of how a modern kart chassis works means that it needs to flex in order to perform properly. Think more in line of  a carbon fiber suspension, rather than an ultra-stiff carbon tub chassis.

I think I recall someone making a carbon chassis as an experiment nevertheless. Not good for karting anyway to put that idea into production.

 

 

[Charles Skowron]

I believe that the R4 has a peakier top end, while the R2 has a broader (and more forgiving to drive) range, but not as high of a peak. I’ve never driven an R4 before; someone who has would have a better idea how the two match up.

[Charles Skowron]

Actually now that I think of it, there may be one advantage to the RLV R2 pipe over the R4 when it comes to sound. The tip of the R2 exhaust is angled downward while the end of the R4 extends straight out.  The exhaust pointed downward can help alleviate the DB readings when being tested.

No serious, top-level competitor runs the R2 in stock moto however. The R4 definitely has a peakier top-end than the R2, even though the R2 is more forgiving to drive. Some silencers have a curved or adjustable tip to them that you can move around to point the end tip straight down, (my silencer has a curved tip that can be pointed downwards, which helps greatly). The right silencer and an airbox (with the foam filter attached inside it), should be enough to pass the sound test, regardless of pipe used.

 

[Charles Skowron]

An airbox is required, (as opposed to the plain K&N style filter and nothing else). A 14-inch silencer should be enough to pass sound. That was my setup;  R2 pipe with a 14″ RLV silencer and the 4-hole style airbox, and it passed. While the silencer and airbox matter, I don’t think the pipe itself, R2 or R4, makes much difference in terms of loudness.

And they will test for sound. Last time I raced there in 2013, they sectioned off a special area where they did a sound check. You had to pass the check and get the kart tagged (which was good for the season), before they even let you out on the track.

It is strictly enforced, set by the town the track is located in, and is beyond the control of F1 Outdoors to make any changes to it.

 

 

[Charles Skowron]

In previous years of the NESKS, the Stock Motos and KZ/ICC shifters ran together, although scored separately.

This season however, the two classes in the series were split and ran at different times, for the first time. I loved the sight, and once actually being in, a grid of 30-40+ 125 shifters ready to blast off at the green. But at a few races this year, there were simply too many in both classes to squeeze into one race. (A wonderful problem to have though when you think about it).

Any Modified Moto karts, as opposed to Stock Moto, would have been put in the KZ class. But Mod Moto (Open Moto) karts in the series are a rare sight. The KZ class is usually completely KZ-powered.

Having said that, Open Moto karts have run there before, and if you showed up with an Open Moto kart at an NESKS race, I doubt they would turn you away. How they would score you, I don’t know. They might class your kart completely separate from the other classes, but they’d place you somewhere. Like Clark said above, the people who run the show are a good group of people.

 

 

 

 

[Charles Skowron]

Hmm, the April date at Go-Pro Motorplex is one weekend before the USPKS date at the same track. The July date at New Castle is one weekend before the SKUSA Pro Tour at New Castle.

Everyone knows how some racers take advantage of a club or regional race right before a major event for track time. Man. Cup is obviously looking to capitalize on that. One explanation why they’re offering both a Leopard and X30 class for their series. Also bolsters their reasoning for the recent change in Man Cup’s rules for Stock Moto. The one flaw in the plan: they run a completely different brand of tire.

The Pittsburgh date is also interesting. The way that track abruptly cancelled all scheduled WKA events previously, you would have thought they were done working with WKA forever.

It’s like a game of chess how these national karting series are moving amongst each other. Their plotting and maneuvering doesn’t help the sport, but it sure is intriguing.

[Charles Skowron]

[i]For those still curious what was trying to be conveyed…[/i]

[b]Herrin Compound Karting Series[/b]

2015 Series Schedule –
January 31
February 28
March 28
April 26
May 31

Shifter Classes –

S1 Semi Pro
Engine: Stock Moto / ICC / KZ / X30 Shifter
Age: 15+
Weight: 390lbs
Tires: MG Yellow FZ
Fuel: VP MS98
Race Number Panels: Yellow number / Green Background

S2 Masters
Engine: Stock Moto / ICC / KZ / X30 Shifter
Age: 30+
Weight: 405lbs
Tires: MG Yellow FZ
Fuel: VP MS98
Race Number Panels: Black number / Green background

TaG Classes –

TaG Senior
Engine: Leopard / X30 / ROK TT / Motori 7 / Rotax Max
Age: 15+
Weight: 375lbs
Tires: MG Yellow FZ
Fuel: VP MS98
Race Number Panels: Red number / White background

TaG Junior
Engine: Leopard / X30 / ROK TT / Motori 7 / Rotax Max
Age: 11-14
Weight: 320lbs
Tires: MG Yellow FZ
Fuel: VP MS98
Race Number Panels: Blue number / White background

TaG Masters
Engine: Leopard / X30 / ROK TT / Motori 7 / Rotax Max
Age: 30+
Weight: 395lbs
Tires: MG Yellow FZ
Fuel: VP MS98
Race Number Panels: Black number / White background

LO206 Classes

Briggs LO206 Junior
Age: 11-14
Engine/Oil: Briggs LO206/Briggs 4T Synthetic by AMS
Fuel: Sunoco non-ethanol
Clutch: Shoe style only
Restrictor: Yellow
Weight: 310lbs
Exhaust: RLV 4110
Tire: MG Yellow FZ
Number Panels: White number / Black background

Briggs LO206 Senior
Age: 15+
ENGINE/OIL: Briggs LO206/Briggs 4T Synthetic by AMS
FUEL: Sunoco non-ethanol
CLUTCH: Shoe style only
WEIGHT: 350lbs
EXHAUST: RLV 4110
TIRE: MG Yellow FZ
Number Panels: White number / Black background

Additional classes will be added to the series if there is a demand

Zach Herrin – HCKS Director
559) 593-3650
herrincompoundkarting@gmail.com
herrincompound.com

[Charles Skowron]

Given their tight relationship with Honda, and the number of Spec Moto racers in SKUSA right now, I have a hard time believing that they would make a switch like that anytime soon. At least not in the near future.

Then again, I never would have thought IAME would turn their back on several long-time importers/partners for two completely brand new ones as happened recently. And if the serious players in SKUSA continue with the development creep on their Stock Motos, and keep sticking ’01 cylinders, who knows what might happen?

As for the 175cc shifter 2-stroke….why?

———————————————————–

C. Skowron – #15 Spec Honda

 

 

 

[Charles Skowron]

Except that it’s made in Italy and thus retails for almost $3,000.

I’m assuming that in Australian Dollars, but with the current exchange rate that still comes to right around $2,600 U.S. …. for an air-cooled motor, making a little over 20hp.  And that is with a price discount

I’ll admit, it is a very nice engine package. It does fit that perfect niche that is sorely missing of being not too fast and complex like a TaG or Shifter, but still much faster than a rental kart experience. And being able to start the thing, by yourself, while sitting behind the wheel. It sounds like a 100cc version of an old Easykart, but without the nonsense of having to buy the entire package, cheap chassis and all, along with it.

But it really needs to be cheaper. PRD can build a water-cooled TaG for under $2,000, someone should be able to build a push-button air-cooled motor for under $1,500. They don’t mention anything about top-end longevity either, only that it uses the same crankpin as their KZ motor so it should in theory last longer, (the bottom-end at least).

And then the part about the racer never having to hand-pick for perfect cylinders, thanks to their close machining tolerances… yeah, all right then.

Which is another issue to consider; if this motor did take off, how would it not be ultimately sabotaged by the unlimited spending of serious racers? Like so many of the other engine packages originally meant for weekend warriors;  Rotax, TaG, Stock Moto etc.

 

——————————–

C. Skowron #15

 

 

[Charles Skowron]

The F-Series website will have information such as raceday schedule, practice, and I think the entry fees are the same for this event; both F-series and NESKS.

http://www.f1series.com/

[Charles Skowron]

Greg Lindahl wrote:

….I think the issue with this class is modification.  Now that the stock Honda CR125 class is popular, a stock Honda CR80 class seems a natural…..

 

Many years ago on the old forum, when the Stock Honda 125 was gaining momentum, I proposed that very idea, supporting it with many of the reasons I mentioned above.

The late, great Rick Blood replied that it would be a great concept. But there was one issue about the CR80 that wouldn’t make the idea as straightforward as the Stock 125.

He was involved with his local SKUSA Mission region where they had a cadet-age shifter class that used stock Honda 80s.

What was discovered was that there was enough of a discrepancy between various CR80 cylinders where parts picking became an issue in the class.

If I recall correctly, he stated that they worked with Woltjer Engines on the issue and their solution was: instead of completely stock cylinders in the class, they allowed a 1/2 inch port (or maybe it was a quarter inch), and nothing more, to the cylinders to resolve the parts selecting issue, which apparently seemed to work.

Besides that, I still don’t see why a Stock 80/85 cc class wouldn’t work either. Well, one thing is I don’t know is if Honda sells spare 80cc engines alone, or a “Kit” for a cr80/85 like they do with the cr125. The other concern would be a similar one with the CR125s: Will Honda keep making the parts for them?

Funny thing about that is, unlike the 125s where I think only Yamaha still makes a 125cc 2-stroke, 3 of the “Big 4” Japanese manufacturers currently sell 2-cycle 80/85cc motocross bikes.

And the only one of the four that does not?……. Honda.

—————————————-

C. Skowron

 

 

 

 

 

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