[William Martin]

Well, I sure don’t know, but that would be about the same as shooting off both feet…unless the supply of Honda engines became zero, that sounds like a silly idea.

[Jim Campeau]

Google Iame shifter engines and see what’s available

[FREDDY SANDOVAL]

I highly doubt it, with the classes as big as they are, and people happy with that formula, I think it’s all rumors.

People been talking about low supply for almost a decade now, they were doing the same thing back whey the 99 engine was ran, and no changes.

Car. Where did you hear this at? Unless there is a headline news or announcement about it from Tom or a supplier I would have a hard time believing it. This formula is still very strong and still growing fast.

[Charles Skowron]

Forward the interview from 3 weeks ago and start at 24:20 . I think the answer is pretty obvious, from Tom himself.

https://new.ekartingnews.com/2017/05/22/superkarts-usa-video-tomversation-skusa-pro-tour-springnationals/

[Carl Beavers]

Exacting what I was looking for. Thanks!

[William Martin]

Hmm, well, change happens. Usually somebody’s ox gets gored in the process, hope Tom can pull off a good compromise when the time comes.

 

[Spencer Uzri]

TaG-ICC/KZ class.  Just saying.

The different TaG-KZ brands are all pretty similar in performance, but each mfgr has a slightly different take.  At SIMA Raceway, the Tag-KZ & SM run together in the 125 shifter class.  Good racing, & the engines are pretty robust.

[Dennis Chappell]

New Pro Shifter class iame 175cc soon to come. Why not it is Tom’s (Importer) Motor be crazy not to do this. Honda is done as we know it.

 

[Spencer Uzri]

[quote quote=83908]New Pro Shifter class iame 175cc soon to come. Why not it is Tom’s (Importer) Motor be crazy not to do this. Honda is done as we know it. [/quote]

While shifters aren’t cheapest thing in karting, & it will be interesting to see what the market can bare.  That’s a nice engine, though $6K is getting up there.  My TM K9ES (125 cc) cost $4K back in ’07, which isn’t cheap.  At current exchange rates, it lists for ~$5K.

I guess, to me, it seems better to allow all the TaG-KZ makes (TM, IAME, Maxter) into the market to compete.  Keep in mind, there is a fair amount of parts commonality between the ICC engine makes (not everything, of course), which mitigates the notion of proprietary issues with parts to a certain degree.  Set up a spec that emphasizes reliability standards/metrics to avoid the cost spiral synonymous with the ICC classes.  Market wise, it makes more sense for the consumer.

A sole engine for all creates a situation of monopoly dependence that is prone to issues like the this current situation with the Honda, where the mfger is/will be withdrawing the product for whatever reason, & everyone is left scrambling for a replacement, or else they bail because it’s cost prohibitive &/or there’s a perception that the class is unstable.

My opinion.

[Dennis Chappell]

Tom announced today information on the new IAME shifter that will be used in his series SKUSA. Again I think it will be the new Iame 175cc motor for the Pro Class. We will wait and see. ICC seems to be making a come back. I see good results at Rock Island for these motors this year. Opinions?

 

[James O’Brien]

He also mentioned several times the Honda will have its place for years to come. The engine on display in Indy  has a long way to go. The 175cc Super Shifter engine is fantastic especially for open class road racers provided the correct tuning from folks who know. I feel comfortable in saying the Honda is still the dominant engine from coast to coast. Although an IAME spec KZ engine would be fantastic for the SKUSA Pro class.  And I would not blame Tom for implementing that in his own series.

[Spencer Uzri]

I’m a little surprised that they don’t want to stick to a 125 cc displacement format just to be consistent with European KZ classes.  But I guess it is what it is (or will be).

[William Martin]

Stock Honda isn’t exactly consistent with KZ class…and if you want to keep the user-friendly nature of Stock Honda, it makes perfect sense to go with a larger displacement, less highly tuned engine than the KZ family. Just as much performance, lasts longer. It won’t sound as cool though…

 

[James O’Brien]

Oh no, the 175cc Super Shifter sounds cool alright … Watch our video of a brand new build from last year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb7P6frASRQ

 

[Spencer Uzri]

[quote quote=85880]Stock Honda isn’t exactly consistent with KZ class…and if you want to keep the user-friendly nature of Stock Honda, it makes perfect sense to go with a larger displacement, less highly tuned engine than the KZ family. Just as much performance, lasts longer. It won’t sound as cool though… [/quote]

The factory suggested top & bottom end rebuild intervals for the TM K9ES (125 cc, 35 HP) are 100-140 L & 400-440 L (or 26-37 gal & 105-116 gal), respectively.  It has a 13.8K RPM rev limiter & a larger bottom end bearing (22 mm, if I recall) to also reduce maintenance.  Even has a simple electric start & the engine keeps the battery charged.  And it works.

Don’t get me wrong, 175 cc is nice, but $6000 for an engine is testing market tolerance.  On the other hand, if it results in volume scaled cost reduction to a level comparable with the 125 KZ engines, then it would be a no brainer.

[William Martin]

Spencer,

Price is certainly an issue, but it is a “one-time” issue vs. recurring maintenance costs. For some, it will lock them out, which is unfortunate, as karting is not supposed to be that “exclusive”, at least not in my opinion. Long term though, I suspect the bigger engine is the better answer, as the -ES engines give up some performance to the plain KZ, that larger bearing has more friction loss & eats power. So if the motive for leaving stock honda is performance…as I think I saw earlier in this thread, the 175cc wins out.

[Spencer Uzri]

Will,

If the bottom end bearing is truly a performance hindrance, I’m not seeing it in comparison to the CR125, especially since I’ve watched them race together up here in the PNW at SIMA, where they’ve structured the shifter class at the club level such that the Honda & other TaG-ICC brands race together.  In terms of outright performance, yes there’s no replacement for displacement.  Then again, the X30 SS is itself a TaG-ICC,/KZ & I’d wager it has a larger bottom end bearing compared to the “pure” KZ engines, which is just a plus for reliability.  Tom has made it clear in both interviews that reliability is the expected hallmark of the package; 175 cc leaves no doubt about performance.

I’m not arguing against the performance increase it offers.  Just the cost relative to the maintenance/cost intervals.  The current crop of TaG-KZ engines is comparable to the CR.  Then again, this discussion is academic.  I’m sure it’s nearly a done deal at this stage, & I’m sure the X30 SS is a good engine.

[Matt Martin]

http://shopswedetech.com/product.php?productid=120&cat=24&page=1

$6k for their 1999 read-to-run “stock” honda package.  I’m not sure how it’s too much different?  I guess that’s after blueprinting – so there will be some of the same work done to a 175cc package that may add some cost.

 

 

[Spencer Uzri]

[quote quote=85941]http://shopswedetech.com/product.php?productid=120&cat=24&page=1 $6k for their 1999 read-to-run “stock” honda package. I’m not sure how it’s too much different? I guess that’s after blueprinting – so there will be some of the same work done to a 175cc package that may add some cost. [/quote]

I hadn’t realized SM was in that price territory.  Just for perspective, a TM K10ES (125 cc) goes for ~$5000.  Just sayin’.

[Dennis Chappell]

Someone on Facebook just did a test with the new Iame 175cc and had the same thoughts as I had with this motor. It’s coming. Should be a great long track package. Time will tell.

[Bob Davies]

I don’t see how you could even get any interest in a 175cc for road racing?

The g-125 and cik grid is mostly kz with a third being Honda.

It would prolly start a 134 or 144 displacement war in the mid west for big track races.   That would get ugly real fast…

How can you improve on KZ?

…   and when was shifter racing ever cheap?

bob

 

[Spencer Uzri]

Found an article on the IAME 175cc “Super Shifter” engine.

https://forums.kartpulse.com/t/skusa-iame-175cc-shifter-pics-and-details/1389

The Tillotson butterfly carburetor with integral fuel pump & hi/low/idle external adjustment knobs is probably the biggest news besides the obvious displacement increase.  Note the pulse line “adapter plate” in front of the reed valve intake manifold.

Not exactly sure why they aren’t sticking with a 125 cc format.  Guessing the engine will spin relatively slower & therefore wear less…?  I’m also curious to know what the bottom end bearing spec & dimensions are.

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