[Greg Wright]

Robert, I think the fall MIS thing just might have legs.

[Greg Wright]

I hate it when folks try to compare the costs to go road racing to racing at their local sprint track. When you compare the costs to a traveling sprint racer (WKA, USPKS, Route 66, SKUSA etc.) the cost comparison changes big time and considering the fact that there’s much less damage occuring during a road race weekend there’s a good argument that overall road racing is less expensive.

OK, while we’re making comparisons let take a quick look at what it costs to run at your local sprint track. Entry fees range from $35-$45 to as much as $60-$80. Add in two pit passes for the driver and a helper at $10-$15 each. Often you are required to run fuel supplied by the track at $10+ a gallon. Very quickly it gets to over $100. Let’s not forget that on your race day at your local sprint track you will do good to get more than 30-40 minutes of track time. On a road race weekend you get hours of track time available each day. I often see 3-4 hours of time on the track in a typical road race weekend and as a rule I typically skip a few practice session.

When it comes to track time road racing has no equal.

[Greg Wright]

Bob K.,  Your statement of “Is roadracing so far in the back of the closet that no one even knows it exists?” is unfortunately right on the money. As I had said earlier in this thread WKA for the most part treats it as an afterthought, IKF has been known to take an “anti-roadracing” stance, AKRA is doing a nice job of picking up the pieces but little else, both CES and KART are doing what they can with the resources that they have available.

I’m thinking that much of this is our own fault in that we as a community aren’t doing doing our cause any good by remaining silent. There are a lot of us although as Brian said they need to get their butts to the track.  Just looking at this forum the roadracing section has more action than any other category other than “General Discussion” and by a wide margin. Shifters, TAGs etc. don’t come close.

Another example would be on Facebook where roadracer John Crider established a page called “Enduro Go Kart Racing” and in a short period of time it had over 2000 members.

From the 60s until well into the 90s many felt that roadracing was one of the “elite” divisions of kart racing and was often viewed as a destination. Nobody is blowing our horn for us, we need to put our heads together and take care of it ourselves.

I’m also flummoxed by this very website giving minimal coverage to roadracing (example Daytona). Rob has done a fair amount of roadracing and David’s family are all hardcore roadracers. I talked to David in Daytona but there’s not been a word on this site other than this forum section.

ROADRACERS OF THE WORLD!! UNITE!!

[Greg Wright]

I’ll add this to this line of thought. When the “No helmet mounted cameras” rules started taking affect much of the reasoning was based on the serious injuries that Michael Schumacher received in his skiing accident. There were some reports that indicated that the helmet mounted camera caused damage to the helmet by concentrating the force in a small area.

[Greg Wright]

Robert, we can agree or disagree, either way it’s all good. However if we want to grow RR  I’m of the same opinion as a poster on Facebook by James McMahan that in order for RR to grow it needs more EXPOSURE.

The national orgs aren’t doing it, IKF seems almost anti RR, WKA sort of treats it as an afterthought, AKRA is doing a good job of picking up the pieces but little else, CES is doing all it can within it’s means.

I have serious doubts about any large amount of success (not zero but) by trying to recruit dedicated sprint racers. As i have said before most generally the response is one of three, either “It’s too dangerous” or “Damn that must be boring as hell.” or “What? Never heard of it.”

There is a fairly large group of sprint racers in my area. To nobody’s surprise you will see a laydown enduro or two on display at my shop. 8 out of 10 times the reaction will be “What the hell is that?” often coming from a sprint racer that has been in kart racing for 15-20 years!!

There was a time when RR was considered one of the pinnacles of kart racing and maybe with more exposure we can gain some of that back. It sure can’t hurt.

Often I think that we are preaching to the choir and maybe some effort needs to be put into trying to reach the SCCA, Auto-cross, NASA, track day people. We do give a driver a lot of bang for the buck.

 

We all need to work together.

[Greg Wright]

Well the copy and paste turned that into gibberish more so than it actually was. WTF? I’m trying!!

[Greg Wright]

Robert,
I’m a little confused by this paragraph, maybe I’m having a senior moment.

You wrote; <strong style=”border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: #444444; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;”>Again<span style=”color: #444444; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px;”>, I’m speaking about</span><strong style=”border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: #444444; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;”> local<span style=”color: #444444; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px;”> RR not big Org stuff. Losing 2 “stick & can” entries is a risk, but we haven’t done anything different historicaly in RR and its still fading. I think your estimate of 20 +/- is inflated, if there were that many in those classes they would have more participation (</span><strong style=”border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: #444444; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;”>localy<span style=”color: #444444; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px;”>) than they do.</span>

What are you trying to say there? I’m really not sure but surely you’re not somehow expecting local participation to fill out the fields. Maybe that’s not what you’re saying at least I hope so. I’m basing that on my experience with the now defunct Indy Kart Club where I was on the board for a few years. After I left the board IKC had a race scheduled at Putnam Park and for a number of reasons it ended up with no sanction and wasn’t part of any series. Even though I was no longer on the board I advised them to not take the financial risk of having a failed event. I was told that they expected local participation to take up the slack. It didn’t and the club went bust.

Of course if that’s not what you’re saying then pay no attention to my last paragraph.

I’m not at all adverse to change but having experienced the challenges of promoting road races makes me want to move very carefully. I agree that bigger, more competitive classes should be more alluring to an outsider but there’s at least an even chance that it won’t and the promoting club gets left with the bill.

This conversation deserves to continue with hopefully more input from other racers, promoters and club officials.

 

[Greg Wright]

Robert, Robert, Robert, I’m not about to argue and I wish I had the answer but I don’t.

The only point I have made is the one that really counts. If combining or merging classes cause the promoting club to lose overall entries it will be a poorly thought out decision. Even in your own example there would have been the loss of two entries overall from just one racer (running two classes instead of four). Now spread that out a bit and first thing you know there will be (guessing here) 20+ or more less entries overall.

The only way to make up the revenue needed to rent these facilities would be to substantially raise entry fees. The current system is flawed no doubt but it can be too easy for the surgery to be successful but the patient died.

You’ll not find a more stalwart proponent of RR than me, it’s dear to my heart and I’ve devoted many years to it.

As for the other gentleman that you mentioned, he and I have a long history going back over 40 years. That we would disagree on something isn’t exactly a surprise.

 

[Greg Wright]

Most will run it dry. There’s plenty enough reversion coming from the carb to oil it slightly.

[Greg Wright]

Richard, the flaw in your suggesting that other manufacturers become involved is the same one that afflicted TAG. The manufacturers won’t compete on price, only on performance and the racer ends up footing the bill.

Once again I have to agree with Clark, if you don’t have fun racing you will never be good at it. It’s got to be fun first and foremost.

[Greg Wright]

I’ve read this thread and the other one multiple times and I’m not sure I know what is being argued about.
Richard, if you’re not racing for fun you’re doing it wrong.

[Greg Wright]

When you were discussing this on Facebook there were some things that didn’t make sense to me. Having looked at the MyLaps results it indicates that your son did not weigh in after the race. True or false?

[Greg Wright]

Results are posted on the WKA site.

 

Once again EKN has chosen to give zero attention to the Roadracing series at WKA KartWeek. C’mon David, have you really forgotten where you came from.

[Greg Wright]

Dan was one of THE icons of auto racing but his last name was GURNEY!!!

[Greg Wright]

Well said Dan.

[Greg Wright]

Clark, I wasn’t aware that the regular LO206 class had been replaced with the Ignite class, I thought Ignite was an add on not a replacement.

By the way Clark, I’m already 70 and I’m running a Vintage B-Stock Laydown.

[Greg Wright]

What class are you referring to in regards to having to buy a different chassis to race? Hadn’t heard that, maybe I’m not paying attention.

[Greg Wright]

Definitely look for something more well known. The PRD doesn’t generally compete well with other TAG engines and not much is known at least by me about the chassis although I believe that one is actually made in China.

[Greg Wright]

Bob K, you are correct about drag racing. All forms of racing took a hit when the economy was circling the drain, but drag racing seems to have done better than most. My shop is located adjacent to Lucas Oil Raceway (Formerly IRP) and there are well attended drag races there nearly week in week out. Having said that the Pro Nitro fields are getting thin, very thin but the sportsman categories have held up very well.

Another thing that hasn’t helped things at all has been the regular obsoleting of expensive imported engines. Overall TAG has been a disaster, example; How much is a racers $3000 Parilla Leopard worth these days? I have little faith that the KA100 is going to revolutionize anything.

[Greg Wright]

Morgan, I wasn’t presenting “Doom and Gloom” at all, merely reporting observations made over the last several years.

No not all is bad, the (local to me) KRA series at NCMP averages 250-300 entries per event and that’s wonderful. Meanwhile other tracks and series in the area are lucky to top 60 entries and often less than that. Note that these other tracks and series in years past often had 125-175 entries.

I would like you to explain to me how having a nearly infinite number of adjustments doesn’t make them more complex. Sure good shops, tuners etc. will tell newbies not to worry about it but human nature seems to ignore much of that advice.

You don’t have pills to screw around with? Then why do you need lasers?

[Greg Wright]

Bo, Your comments are right on point in every way including how difficult it can be to compete with “Snake Oil Salesmen” that are more than willing to promise fame and fortune for no reason other than to fatten their wallets.

Matt I disagree with your statement about karts (sprint karts in particular) not having become too technical. Dozens of geometry settings, different axles, different ride heights, trick alloy tubing, hubs, wheels etc. The number of adjustments available can be bewildering to even the most savvy racer.

Good conversation going on here.

[Greg Wright]

Bob K, that’s my point exactly. The question is what can be done!!

Without a healthy grass roots segment the sport isn’t going to go anywhere that it needs to go. Putting most of the emphasis on “National” or “Pro” racing reminds me a little too much of the term “trickle down”.

 

[Greg Wright]

Charles, You say that you might not agree with me on what can be done, but I didn’t suggest any cures. In fact this may be (but I hope not) like trying to get the toothpaste back in the tube.

Actually the only thing I’m suggesting is a change of focus.

[Greg Wright]

Out of balance wheel?

 

[Greg Wright]

Your statement about a chassis being converted to a laydown is bothersome. Laydown karts are not modified sprinters but instead purpose build machines.

[Author]

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