[Robert Horvath]

OK Steve,
 
1) > I’ll put this Karting thing as a spectator sport to bed as I see your point.
 
I live here in the good old USA and Karting here will never be the same as European Karting where it is respected professional sport of racing.
 
2) > I should have been clearer on what I’m doing with this telemetry device.
 
Tillotson Carb LTD has a lot of this available already > The Tillotson Racing — SA-501 Precision Jet – Remote Jet Controller

Tillotson Link:  http://www.tillotson-racing.com/products/precision-jet-remote-jet-controller
 
Also derived from an earlier design of mine. > see you tube link :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4V9q3QlAXA

 
When I was at the Super Nats in Vegas last year the Tillotson carb people ask me if I could further develop the system to be more sophisticated with remote carb adjustments and real time feed back to the pits.  To make it a little easier to dial in the engine from the pits because the driver has enough to do just driving the kart and tuning the carb is my job not his.
 
I’m not trying to tell anybody that they should do this to there karts.  I’m just saying what I’m doing with Tillotson for here in the USA  but mostly for the  European Karting market and overseas where karting is taken more seriously then here.

(and they have been around longer then any of us with there carbs  on awful lot of engines…. I also think they know what there doing by now)

 
My friends and myself all gave up on Tag. racing….Way,way too expensive to race a TaG. machine…More on that latter.
 
I told Tillotson that they would have to make me a couple of large bore direct fit pumper type carbs which they did do for me very nicely.
 
For me to test out on our almost stock Honda CR125 motos  that my friends and I all drive nowadays because of there very cheap cost to operate See this photo below(sorry>it’s in the wrong format) below of the  Tillotson # HW-12 / at 34mm  and the # HW-26 at 36mm.
 
A very nice carb for the Honda CR125 shifter for the open / expert class of kart racing and way better then keihin float type carb and easy to remove and to return to  fully stock moto racing.

 

 
Now back to the
expense thing.

I see karting on par with most other adult toys:

A new fast Jet ski > $11,000.00 to $15,000.00

A new very fast Snowmobile > $12,000.00 to $16,000.00

A new small  boat > $15,000.00 to $ 20,000.00  or more.

A new fast and very exciting Shifter Kart > $10,000.00 to $15,000.00

So I don’t think a $1,000.00 accessory for a kart is to much to spend if you even want one…No it’s not needed I agree > It’s just fun to have in your tool box !

And after 54 years in karting I have finally come to realize that the stock  Honda CR80  or CR125 moto Shifter Karts are by far the cheapest  fastest kind of Kart Racing  and fun you can have on four wheels

Here are a few points on why it is so cheap to do this Shifter Thing after the initial expense
 
1) Safety > With brakes on all four corners they stop fast and square every time.
 
2) Almost never have to worry or change the inexpensive HD #428 chain or sprockets.
 
3) It has a clutch ..but you never ever have to touch it or play with it like on a Tag kart (A Tag clutch is $$$ to replace also).
 
4) The Honda dirt  bike engine can go a long,long time before a rebuild is needed.. one, two or three seasons if you want.
 
5) No super high RPMs to wear things out yet still very fast and thrilling > only 4 to 5 oz. of any kind of oil is needed for the regular pump gas it uses.
 
6) You never ever have go home sad and broken.
 
7) When the Shifters are on the track almost everyone stops to have a “Look See”
 
8) Your personal weight does not mater…Heavy or light we all go fast.
 
9) If you make a bad mistake on a turn you can quickly get yourself back on track with a “Gear Box”.
 
10) And on and on.
 
Here below is a little info on our group of guys and my past invention/ innovations to make these things more civilized to drive and work with:
 
 We are just a small sub chapter club of Badger Kart club consisting of 12 older (18 to 72 yrs. old) guys. Most all of us on Honda CR125 shifters.

We can’t believe how much more reliable the Honda’s are then the TaG karts we use to drive. A lot Less maintenance too!

We all just race between each other every Thursday for the fun of it > No waiting for your class to come up > And we get many, many laps in a day > Just Run what you brung.    >  An update  since  I last wrote this  >  Our club now recently said to bring our stuff out on a Sunday and they would make up a class  just for us guys as we are getting spectators to watch.

No stupid rule book with too many rules either.

Last year two us tried the ME-Shifter F1 – Electronic Paddle Shifting System, by Mechatron.

This year two more fellows have fitted there shifters with the paddle system also.

It changes everything for the better > No driver fatigue > No lifting of the throttle as it has a spark interrupter > Shifts in just 50 milliseconds.

Very reliable . The only improvement we had to make with the system was to install a much better battery by installing a BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE LITHIUM EVO2 12V 12 CELL MOTORCYCLE BATTERY, 410 AMPS at about 1lb weight to actuate the 60 amp shift servo.

Some of the guys have switched over to 6 inch rims on Hoosier Super Kart Tires and that’s quite an improvement too.

We are pretty much too old to “Push Start” these things.

So we re-installed the OEM kick starter system with extension
to clear the pipe and that works well too.

You can see it in the photo below:

See how nicely it tucks in there

 

 

I can’t wait for our season to start here in Wi. For Fun,Fun,Fun.
 
More recently I got the hard to tune  keihin float type carb off the Shifters and replaced with a pumper type carb.
 
Here below is photo of a Honda Shifter with a stock Mikuni carb off my old Polaris Jet Ski…She really flys with that carb and no long curved rubber boot to slow down the fuel flow…just put the carb up close and right tight to the engine!   All this stuff I talk about is very easy to do yourself.
< 

 
Below is a 24 volt external starter I made utilizing a worm drive wheel chair motor to make it easy to start these shifters while on the stand at the axle itself:

 
Oconomowoc Bob

 

 

 

[Robert Horvath]

True Ted,

No disagreement from me on that statement of yours.

I know this project is a little over the top and except for some testing under real racing conditions…..I don’t think I would use it myself.

I do think though I will use just the engine’s monitoring back to the pits part of it in real time this season and the logging feature like the Mychron does.

Ocono Bob

[Robert Horvath]

Bob Horvath here,

About the expense thing.

I do truly believe that in all types of racing we should have at lease one unlimited class where almost anything goes ( like “Top Fuel” in drag racing and “Formula 1” in road racing ) and cost is the last thing on there mind . only winning .. you have to do this  to stimulate new innovations. From day one racing has always been like this… you must allow new innovations for the sport to progress …not stifle it with too many rules in a book…you can see I’m pretty adamant abut this subject. The general public likes to see very fast and competitive racing…not worrying about the cost. I think to have Go karting survive as we now know it …not only do we have to get more Karts on the track but more importantly > More people in the grandstands. Look at the Super Nats. In Vegas.  When they bring out the Shifters..A big crowd gathers and those are expensive machines and people love them.

You can’t survive without an audience.  NASCAR would be nothing without people in the stands and I think  $1,000.00 for what the Telemetry unit does is in line with the rest of the sports cost. If we continue to “Dumb Down” karts nobody will attend as a spectator. We need more then just the relatives in the stands and I started in this sport with Bob Howard in the late 50s so I know a little something about the sport.

Walt > 54 years karting experience for me.

Or To cut the cost in half.  Just use just the engines telemetry monitoring back to the pits  part of the system in real time for the tuner.

Below > A photo taken when the Shifters are on the track !

Ocono Bob

[Robert Horvath]

Andy,

Thanks for the heads up.

I’ll look into both those carbs you mentioned and I’ll give Perry a call too.

Ocono Bob

[Robert Horvath]

Results now are in

On using the :

Custom Honda CR125 intake manifold and the Mikuni carb setup

Hi back shifter guys.

It’s been about six weeks now that we have been using the new setup

I didn’t want to say anything before until the unit was thoroughly Race track tested.

The answer is easy ..JUST ONE WORD > Awesome Performance!

We have taken a full second off our own personal best time at our local track ( Badger Raceway Dousman wi.) and after hundreds & hundreds of laps with absolutely no Carb trouble at all.

A good lap time at Badger is anything under 38 seconds….We are consistently in the 37.20s with the Honda CR125/Mikuni now,

I’m not setup to “Retail a kit ” to the general public.

But I’m making arraignments now to sell it through a few of the better shifter kart shops and on line from them also.

It will be priced about on par with the Swedetech Honda intakes.

The complete intake kit would consist of the intake, all gaskets all, hardware,throttle cable, bar type throttle cable bracket, 38mm air filter/box adapter and to inc.this disclaimer below :

“As when installing any performance product, a degree of mechanical ability is required. If after reviewing the parts you don’t feel that you can properly complete this installation, take your kart to a competent professional. Proper installation and adjustment will save time, money and aggravation.”

Because of all the tight quarters I recommend installing the carb & and intake as one piece with a very long ball type allen wrench.

Then it’s easy to do.

I got so tired of always having to take the stupid Honda CR125 Keihin carburetor
off to change jets I’m taking a lot of them off the shifter Karts in our little classic shifter club and tossing them out or selling them….I think they are all JUNK.. pump arounds too….But maybe that’s just me ?

Here below is a long story of what I’m doing for carbs instead …AND I’LL TELL YOU THIS SETUP REALLY WORKS WELL ON THE CR125s.

This below looks very clean and it solves all the fuel system issues.

Robert Horvath

Participant
UPDATE :

FYI Shifter Go Kart Guys,

For the open/modified
class of Honda CR125 Shifters.

The very short fuel path direct fit Honda CR125 Shifter intake manifold for 38mm 2 flange bolt types of carburetors is all done .

It has a 11 degree right rotation angle
to clear the kick start bump ( Carbs like the externally adjustable Mikuni 38mm Carbs work really well )

No more rubber boots with right angle turns to disturb the fuel flow !

And even a more perfect fit when used in conjunction with the V-Force 3 Reed Cage box .

I’m getting this experimental test carb fitted up to the CR125 Honda.

Mikuni Super Butterfly Type SBN38mm Diaphragm Pump Carburetor
No jets to change ever (well almost never) as it has easy to get to externally adjustable low & high speed mixture screws just like the Vortex RoK-tt carb only a much bigger bore (38mm) to fit the CR125 Honda engine and the fuel pump is built right in too.

I’m getting tired of always taking off the carb to change the high & low speed pilot jets and I don’t care for float types of carbs either.

These are one of the best performing and easy tuning carburators that money can buy.

see all photos below:

Or a big bore Tilly is a good fit on the Honda too for short tracks!
Note > a primer bulb also for easy starts :

Important note below :

Road America is a famous road course located near Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin

Here are the results of the first time out at Road America with the new intake set up.

I installed the kit on team Craig Hemmen / Bob Horvath (That’s me)

We ( Craig Hemmen age 61 the driver of Kart # 92 & me Bob Horvath the mechanic age 68) were competing all day at Road America) and of all the Pro shifter Karts (about 22) there today…We got fast time of the day and that gave us the Pole Position for the feature race and a First place Win in for our Honda class too.

The ICC shifters and the Honda’s all run together in one class due to the small number of each

Date 24-08-2013 13:36
Length 0.8000 Miles
Best lap time 44.463 In lap 4
Best speed 64.773 By competitor Craig
Hemmen/Bob Horvath
pos start no. competitor laps total time diff best time best lap best speed
1 Honda engine 92 Craig Hemmen 6 04:36.982 44.463 4 64.773
2 ICC type engine 65 Darrick Lang 6 04:54.457 17.475 44.690 5 64.444
3 ICC type engine 17 Dayton Bender 6 04:56.302 19.320 44.829 2 64.244

Thank You

Bob

Robert Horvath

W352N6446 Road J
Oconomowoc Wi 53066 U.S.A.

rhorvath4@wi.rr.com

Honda;Mikuni;Intake;Manifold;Shifter;Carb

[Robert Horvath]

Alan Sheidler said :

Do some sanctioning org’s prohibit carbs that have an integral fuel pump?

The tracks around here in WI. USA don’t care when going though “TEC”

Ocono Bob

[Robert Horvath]

Update > on the onboard
Carburetor Adjusting Tool

FYI

I’m going see if I can modify for permanent installation a couple of these carb adjustment tools pictured down below to bring the Mikuni carb mixture low & high speed adjustment screws up to the front of the Honda CR125 cylinder head so maybe the driver could adjust the Carb on the fly instead of coming into the pits for a adjustment.
Carburetor Adjusting Tool
The carburetor adjusting tool has a flexible cable to easily access often hard to reach carb adjustment screws.
Carb Screw Adjusting Tool Part Number 53-999 $24.95 each.

Here is a photo of two of them attached to the new Mikuni jet ski carb on the Honda Shifter.

Blue for the low speed mixture adjustment… and …Red for the high speed mixture adjustment.

Ocono Bob

rhorvath4@wi.rr.com

Robert Horvath

W352N6446 Road J
Oconomowoc Wi 53066 U.S.A

[Robert Horvath]

You asked “does this carb have a fuel pump on it as well? looks like it but im not sure”

The answer is > yes it does!

[Robert Horvath]

On the Mikuni carb setup:

I posted this to see if there was much interest in this project and I see that there is…..So I’ll work up a price for the setup.

Would you karters get your own carbs off ebay like this one ? :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mikuni-Super-SBN-38-mm-38mm-Carburetor-Carb-Brand-New-/190459013132

Or would you like the Mikuni carb, air box inlet adapter, primer system, gasket, nuts & bolts, throttle cable bracket , custom intake manifold and V force 3 reed box as a complete system ?

Probably not cheap when all added up ?

The intake manifold is about 1/2 inch thick someone asked.

The Carb is a generic replacement carb for my 1995 Polaris triple carb 750 cc watercraft (JetSki). see photo down below :

Each carb feeds each 250 cc cylinder.

The Jetski has such tremendous throttle response I thought I give it a try on my Honda shifter….It works well so far and I’ll keep you posted after much more track testing of the setup.

I do see now after track testing that I have to set the popoff pressure much lower.

Ocono Bob

Thank You
Robert Horvath

W352N6446 Road J
Oconomowoc Wi 53066 U.S.A.

rhorvath4@wi.rr.com

[Robert Horvath]

Yes Ted,

I run a Tilly HW 12 34mm Carb on one of my Honda CR125s and a Mikuni SNB 38mm on my other Honda CR125 shifter.

Both carbs perform very well with the smaller Tilly doing a better job on short tracks and the bigger Mikuni doing a better job on long tracks as would be expected !

Or for another take on “ON THE FLY CARB AJUSTING” look at my utube here :

UPDATE :

FYI Shifter Go Kart Guys,

For the open/modified
class of Honda CR125 Shifters.

The very short fuel path direct fit Honda CR125 Shifter intake manifold for 38mm 2 flange bolt types of carburetors is all done .

It has a 11 degree right rotation angle
to to clear the kick start bump ( Carbs like the externally adjustable Mikuni 38mm Carbs work really well )

No more rubber boots with right angle turns to disturb the fuel flow !

And even a more perfect fit when used in conjunction with the V-Force 3 Reed Cage box .

I’m getting this experimental test carb fitted up to the CR125 Honda.

Mikuni Super Butterfly Type SBN38mm Diaphragm Pump Carburetor
No jets to change ever (well almost never) as it has easy to get to externally adjustable low & high speed mixture screws just like the Vortex RoK-tt carb only a much bigger bore (38mm) to fit the CR125 Honda engine and the fuel pump is built right in too.

I’m getting tired of always taking off the carb to change the high & low speed pilot jets and I don’t care for float types of carbs either.

These are one of the best performing and easy tuning carburators that money can buy.

see below:

Thank You

Bob

Robert Horvath

W352N6446 Road J
Oconomowoc Wi 53066 U.S.A.

rhorvath4@wi.rr.com

[Robert Horvath]

[Author]

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