- This topic has 39 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 4 months ago by .
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Steve,
You say :
“It occurred to me that your tuning system would be a real useful tool for a good dyno setup”
Actually that’s how I got involved with Tillotson in the first place.
They read one of my ekarting news post about my earliest remote carb adjuster and asked me to make one for them to use in there engine / carb testing room.
And that’s how this whole Telemetry thing got conceived in the first place and then talked about again at the 2013 Vegas Super Nats with Tillotson.
PS > I also manufacture in my garage besides the shifter external starter motor …Two other types of gear reduction external cranking motors for Karts without a gearbox. Very light and very powerful too.
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Ocono Bob
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Bob Horvath here,
About the expense thing.
I do truly believe that in all types of racing we should have at lease one unlimited class where almost anything goes ( like “Top Fuel” in drag racing and “Formula 1” in road racing ) and cost is the last thing on there mind . only winning .. you have to do this to stimulate new innovations. From day one racing has always been like this… you must allow new innovations for the sport to progress …not stifle it with too many rules in a book…you can see I’m pretty adamant abut this subject. The general public likes to see very fast and competitive racing…not worrying about the cost. I think to have Go karting survive as we now know it …not only do we have to get more Karts on the track but more importantly > More people in the grandstands. Look at the Super Nats. In Vegas. When they bring out the Shifters..A big crowd gathers and those are expensive machines and people love them.
You can’t survive without an audience. NASCAR would be nothing without people in the stands and I think $1,000.00 for what the Telemetry unit does is in line with the rest of the sports cost. If we continue to “Dumb Down” karts nobody will attend as a spectator. We need more then just the relatives in the stands and I started in this sport with Bob Howard in the late 50s so I know a little something about the sport.
Walt > 54 years karting experience for me.
Or To cut the cost in half. Just use just the engines telemetry monitoring back to the pits part of the system in real time for the tuner.
Below > A photo taken when the Shifters are on the track !
Ocono Bob
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True Ted,
No disagreement from me on that statement of yours.
I know this project is a little over the top and except for some testing under real racing conditions…..I don’t think I would use it myself.
I do think though I will use just the engine’s monitoring back to the pits part of it in real time this season and the logging feature like the Mychron does.
Ocono Bob
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OK Steve,
1) > I’ll put this Karting thing as a spectator sport to bed as I see your point.
I live here in the good old USA and Karting here will never be the same as European Karting where it is respected professional sport of racing.
2) > I should have been clearer on what I’m doing with this telemetry device.
Tillotson Carb LTD has a lot of this available already > The Tillotson Racing — SA-501 Precision Jet – Remote Jet ControllerTillotson Link: http://www.tillotson-racing.com/products/precision-jet-remote-jet-controller
Also derived from an earlier design of mine. > see you tube link :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4V9q3QlAXA
When I was at the Super Nats in Vegas last year the Tillotson carb people ask me if I could further develop the system to be more sophisticated with remote carb adjustments and real time feed back to the pits. To make it a little easier to dial in the engine from the pits because the driver has enough to do just driving the kart and tuning the carb is my job not his.
I’m not trying to tell anybody that they should do this to there karts. I’m just saying what I’m doing with Tillotson for here in the USA but mostly for the European Karting market and overseas where karting is taken more seriously then here.(and they have been around longer then any of us with there carbs on awful lot of engines…. I also think they know what there doing by now)
My friends and myself all gave up on Tag. racing….Way,way too expensive to race a TaG. machine…More on that latter.
I told Tillotson that they would have to make me a couple of large bore direct fit pumper type carbs which they did do for me very nicely.
For me to test out on our almost stock Honda CR125 motos that my friends and I all drive nowadays because of there very cheap cost to operate See this photo below(sorry>it’s in the wrong format) below of the Tillotson # HW-12 / at 34mm and the # HW-26 at 36mm.
A very nice carb for the Honda CR125 shifter for the open / expert class of kart racing and way better then keihin float type carb and easy to remove and to return to fully stock moto racing.
Now back to the
expense thing.I see karting on par with most other adult toys:
A new fast Jet ski > $11,000.00 to $15,000.00
A new very fast Snowmobile > $12,000.00 to $16,000.00
A new small boat > $15,000.00 to $ 20,000.00 or more.
A new fast and very exciting Shifter Kart > $10,000.00 to $15,000.00
So I don’t think a $1,000.00 accessory for a kart is to much to spend if you even want one…No it’s not needed I agree > It’s just fun to have in your tool box !
And after 54 years in karting I have finally come to realize that the stock Honda CR80 or CR125 moto Shifter Karts are by far the cheapest fastest kind of Kart Racing and fun you can have on four wheels
Here are a few points on why it is so cheap to do this Shifter Thing after the initial expense
1) Safety > With brakes on all four corners they stop fast and square every time.
2) Almost never have to worry or change the inexpensive HD #428 chain or sprockets.
3) It has a clutch ..but you never ever have to touch it or play with it like on a Tag kart (A Tag clutch is $$$ to replace also).
4) The Honda dirt bike engine can go a long,long time before a rebuild is needed.. one, two or three seasons if you want.
5) No super high RPMs to wear things out yet still very fast and thrilling > only 4 to 5 oz. of any kind of oil is needed for the regular pump gas it uses.
6) You never ever have go home sad and broken.
7) When the Shifters are on the track almost everyone stops to have a “Look See”
8) Your personal weight does not mater…Heavy or light we all go fast.
9) If you make a bad mistake on a turn you can quickly get yourself back on track with a “Gear Box”.
10) And on and on.
Here below is a little info on our group of guys and my past invention/ innovations to make these things more civilized to drive and work with:
We are just a small sub chapter club of Badger Kart club consisting of 12 older (18 to 72 yrs. old) guys. Most all of us on Honda CR125 shifters.We can’t believe how much more reliable the Honda’s are then the TaG karts we use to drive. A lot Less maintenance too!
We all just race between each other every Thursday for the fun of it > No waiting for your class to come up > And we get many, many laps in a day > Just Run what you brung. > An update since I last wrote this > Our club now recently said to bring our stuff out on a Sunday and they would make up a class just for us guys as we are getting spectators to watch.
No stupid rule book with too many rules either.
Last year two us tried the ME-Shifter F1 – Electronic Paddle Shifting System, by Mechatron.
This year two more fellows have fitted there shifters with the paddle system also.
It changes everything for the better > No driver fatigue > No lifting of the throttle as it has a spark interrupter > Shifts in just 50 milliseconds.
Very reliable . The only improvement we had to make with the system was to install a much better battery by installing a BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE LITHIUM EVO2 12V 12 CELL MOTORCYCLE BATTERY, 410 AMPS at about 1lb weight to actuate the 60 amp shift servo.
Some of the guys have switched over to 6 inch rims on Hoosier Super Kart Tires and that’s quite an improvement too.
We are pretty much too old to “Push Start” these things.
So we re-installed the OEM kick starter system with extension
to clear the pipe and that works well too.You can see it in the photo below:
See how nicely it tucks in there
I can’t wait for our season to start here in Wi. For Fun,Fun,Fun.
More recently I got the hard to tune keihin float type carb off the Shifters and replaced with a pumper type carb.
Here below is photo of a Honda Shifter with a stock Mikuni carb off my old Polaris Jet Ski…She really flys with that carb and no long curved rubber boot to slow down the fuel flow…just put the carb up close and right tight to the engine! All this stuff I talk about is very easy to do yourself.
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Below is a 24 volt external starter I made utilizing a worm drive wheel chair motor to make it easy to start these shifters while on the stand at the axle itself:
Oconomowoc Bob -
Steve,
As you can see.
I’m a Karter, engineer, inventor,innovator …But…not a writer.
I re-wrote it a bit and added a few more photos to further clear up what I’m trying to say here.
One more thing.
After I make post like re-installing the kick starter back on the engine everyone tells me “That just won’t work Horvath” but they never tell me why it won’t work ? Must be just an old “Wives Tail” ?
We all have been using the KickStart for a few years now with absolutely no trouble at all ?
They say what’s wrong with just pushing it to start.
That can get very tiring after a few times….What if you spin and stall out on the “back forty” that can be a long walk back.
With the Kick back on you just re-start yourself and finish the race!
A snapshot below of # 92 Shifter Kart at the Wi. Rod & Custom show and me Bob Horvath (the old guy in the photo) and my grandson Myles Beck.
PS That’s just a mannequin in the kart itself.
Ocono Bob
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Steve,
Now you struck a cord in me.
I hope this isn’t to far off the topic ?
I’m so old (age 69) it doesn’t seem vintage to me because I was there in those very early years (1958 to about 1961) with my Fox Go Boy with a 2 1/2 Clinton engine and then after that a Simplex Kart and Dual West Bend power plants….That seemed to me at the time to be as fast as a lot karts out there today ?
I must have watch this 16mm promo film below about ten times when Mcculloch chainsaws was into karting big time at our 1961 Sport Show .
The whole thing is pretty good.
Back in that day it took two strong men to start a Twin Mac Kart !
(Even with little man Don Knotts at the wheel)
(July 21, 1924 – February 24, 2006)
At time > about 6:50
And check out that trophy gal…That’s one long kiss..I don’t get out to the races much on a Sunday….Do they still do that when you get your Trophy at our racetrack > Badger ?
At time > about 9:50
McCulloch Kart Promotion Movie circa 1961 – YouTube
Ocono Bob -
Go Kart Racing Telemetry by remote control
Go Kart Friends,
I don’t know if anybody is still reading these posts….But here below is the final piece of the puzzle :A lot electronic components packed into this small on board Telemetry box below :
1) Over voltage DC to DC converter/protection module.
2) Six volt high capacity Ni Cad rechargeable battery pack.
3) Recorder logger module.
4) Ambient air temperature module.
5) coolant temperature module.
6) Exhaust Gas temperature module.
7) Magnetic induction RPM pick up module.
8) Full function GPS module.
9) High output transmitter for the telemetry system.
10) Side mounted on/off switch with an external charging port.
Ocono Bob
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Pete,
You brought up some good points and I can’t find fault with any of them.
I’m so old (age 69) I’ve grown old along with the fun sport of karting all my life.
It’s the same old story > First a lawn mower engine -Then a West Bend-Then some Mac 6s and 10s & on & on.
But maybe the best years (1980) were like you say > My two girls on two Yamaha karts fitted with the KT-100 and me on a Zip Kart with a KT-100
Very inexpensive Karting back then with that equipment.
But now myself and my close friends (and I’m not trying to tell other karters what to do) We just want to see how far we can take a Honda CR125 shifter —Cost not being a factor within some sort of reason.
Thanks
Ocono Bob
I’ve posted this you youtube before ..But it’s always fun to watch again:
Link :
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Chris Reinhart,
Are we on the same page on this thing ? Or am I missing something ?
You Say > “There’s some better packages out there…..”
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__508__172__FPV_Telemetry-FrSky_Telemetry.html
All I see is a Temp Sensor that won’t do the one most important reading > “EGT”
From what I read it doesn’t read to over 250 degrees
FrSky TEMS-01 Telemetry Temperature Sensor (for use with FrSky Telemetry Sensor Hub)
Up to two temperature sensors can be used at the same time. They are commonly used to read temperatures of model accessories, such as electric motor, ESC, glow and gas engine cylinder head, battery, muffler, voltage regulator, BEC, tail pipe and ambient air.
Measurement Range: -20~250 degrees Celsius/ -4~482 degrees Fahrenheit
Accuracy: 1 degree Celsius/ 1 degree Fahrenheit
Installation: Use zip ties to hold the temperature sensor tightly against the accessory that requires temperature reading.In fact > although the telemetry system can read back all the engine’s parameters….I probably will just do the “EGT” And “GPs Speed” as the rest are somewhat irrelevant to racing.
You Say > “Nicad’s, really? Hmm High Tech….”
So then > What battery do suggest as I have tried them all and Nicad’s Stand up the best to the engines vibration with the Carb, Receiver, Servos And Battery all being fully self contained on the carb itself.
Note the lithium-ion battery is the first one to give up the ghost !
Some of these negative comments are what all us innovators come to expect after a period of time.
When Edison invented the “Light Bulb” people said “We don’t need it …Kerosene is working just fine for a lamp.
Or when I bought a Electronic Paddle shifting unit from Europe and installed it on our Kart.
Link :
http://www.mechatron-kart.com/me-shifter-f1.html
Even my close friends scoffed at the Idea of paddle shifting.
But by the end of the season they all switched over to the paddle system…It makes driving a shifter such a breeze and safer too with both hands on the wheel.
On a very short track like our 6/10 mile tight twisty track..I’ll go head to head with any bump shifter out there and when is all said and done the paddle driver with be a lot less fatigued and will have felt like he was in a Big Indy Car to boot.
You Say > “Cool tinkering, but waaaaaay too involved for a kart…”
Why Not ?
Here is a photo below of the finished machine… All set for the 2014 seasons with almost all of my inventions on it.
It doesn’t look too complicated to me for a kart .
Ocono Bob
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And a update PS > On my Telemetry system :
Although the telemetry system can read back all the engine’s parameters….I probably will just do the “EGT” And “GPs Speed” (self contained) as the rest are somewhat irrelevant to our type of shifter racing.
This way I can quickly transfer the small engine transmitter feedback unit from kart to kart with just one “Y” connection to the same Aim / MyChron EGT sensor that’s already installed most shifters anyway.
And get all the Karts in our little group dialed in on exhaust temp.
The photo below : Is of the Remote control Tilly Carb (36mm), Receiver, Servos and Battery all being fully self contained on the HW-24 carb itself.
It fits fine on the Honda CR125 with a specially made by my nephew (Barry) Tilly intake manifold and room to spare !
Below is a photo of the small engine transmitter feedback unit. reading back to a laptop.
1.5 mile range
or to a small portable hand held read out unit like below :
Ocono Bob
Robert Horvath atOconomowoc Wi 53066 U.S.A.
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