[Paul Kish]

I too just got spammed from your site, it shows in my notifications.

I’ll have to now have to cause messages from you to my email, to be treated as spam.

 

 

[Paul Kish]

Thank you, I’m east of Mid Ohio and the Race in Indiana I saw in July.  Mid Ohio is not a long drive for me.  Spectator wise, I quit going to long tracks because of not being able to see much of the track from any vantage point.  I do though want to make and see this year a big stuff left/right kart race.  Sounds like UAS power on a road course and sounds like fun to watch and for those riding the things.  … :)

 

again thank you James

[Paul Kish]

Only one reason to snap loose.  No grip at the inside rear and the outside rear is being worked beyond what it can give and the front has grip.

 

When you drop down weight jacking your causing the inside rear to help hold you in by not allowing it unload as much and the hard steering is because you still have grip up front.  At that time your wanting to accelerate but your killing it because your still turning and fighting the back to go where you want to go, with an engaged inside rear.

 

Or in other words push in loose out and in your case it’s a whole ton of loose out.  Your telling us you can’t fix it with adjustments because the  adjustment your trying to fix it with, puts or keeps the inside rear engaged too much.

 

If you cannot truly fix it with adjustments you have to fix it with your driving.  Your either driving in too far or cutting off the corner.  If your driving in too far, then it’s the thing won’t turn and when you slow to make it turn, you have too much turning left to do and you break the back loose.  But I don’t see that as your driving problem.

 

I see your driving problem to be your chopping off the corners.  That means your pretty much driving a straight line down at and by the corner, and then trying to make it turn.  It can’t because you did not get enough of your turning done prior to that point on the track.  But since you have grip up front the front holds and your outside rear lets loose.  Your driving fix is one of two things.  One, you can try entering higher to give you room to complete more turning through the corner, before you get to your apex an on out.  The second way to fix it if you can’t manage to change your line, is to brake and then roll a little in an arc to complete more of your turning, before you consider an apex point.  Either way you have to get more initial turning done,  before choosing an apex.  If you don’t and have too much turning left, your either going to be a pig grinding off speed with the fronts fighting the somewhat engaged inside rear or you will snap loose.

 

maybe?  … :)

 

 

 

 

[Paul Kish]

I need to add in one additional item to the mix.

Grip does not follow weight transfer.  You first have to have grip before you can get any mechanical or dynamic weight transfer.

 

The sequence is(maybe) get a grip on it, on track forces will move dynamic weight to the grip and then the relocated weight will pull the parts of the chassis towards the grip.

 

When grip goes away, so does weight.

[Paul Kish]

 

First off thank you all again for the input.

I just happened to look at email and saw there was an additional reply.  I’m also a little into sprint cars too.  Frankly all cars work alike because performance is always about your ability to use your tires as needed on the track.

Over the years I have found the only real difference is the ability of what your racing to apply weight to and from tires, the capabilities of the tires, do you have a solid or locked axle >AND are your racing a “real race car” which turns both left and right or are you racing a “LTO” which turns only left.  If there is a major difference, it’s between “real race cars” and “LTO’s”, the difference is how the rear tires are used to be efficient in turns.

Enough on that.  Here’s a correlation I just now thought of from your kind input which I think now may relate to the question.

 

With a sprint car weight application to the RR or outside rear is via the chassis through a torsion bar(spring), then via a lever(RR torsion arm) to the RR bird cage(bearing assembly, mounted directly to the right end of the solid axle).

 

We recently reversed the tubes on the back of our car.   Tubes are just that tubes that go across the back of the car, which hold the torsion bars inside.

They are installed one ahead of the other.  Let’s just say one is 2″s in front of the other because they are 2″s in diameter.  A normal sprint car today will have the tube closest to the axle(the one positioned ahead of the other) holding the torsion bar, with a torsion arm mounted to the end extinding forward to the axle, connecting to the bird cage(the lever) on the right side.

And the rearward tube and it’s torsion bar and longer torsion arm, connected to the left bird cage, again which is mounted to the axle, but on the left end of the axle.

 

Ok, if we look at the engineering of it for each side to work equally with different length levers, you will also have to use torsion bars which have different spring rates.   Generally speaking, it should not matter which side the longer lever is on, because if the spring rate is adjusted to the lever length, both side per the math and would operate the same.

 

But here’s why “I” feel even though the math will be the same,  on track performance will differ.

Just the fact that you have one lever longer then the other,  defines each side as different even though the spring rate math will work out the same.  “I” in this case can relate the longer lever to not only working differently, just because it’s longer and different, but because the longer lever will have a bit more flex.

In this case there also a 2″ difference in where forces are applied which “I” also think will make a difference, but for the sake of this discussion the longer lever also will provide more flex, if even a small amount.

It’s flex which takes time to occur and IMHO, will alter how weight is presented from the chassis to the tire.

IMHO, even though an engineer will tell you the transmission of dynamic weight through the parts instantaneous,  my experience has proven to me it will alter how weight is applied by the tire.

It’s tough to define which came first, the flex or chassis movement, or the instant dynamic weight transfer.  Engineers will tell you the weight transfer is instantaneous.  If that’s the case then in actual operation of any chassis, forces cause dynamic weight to transfer and then the relocated weight is what causes your chassis or kart frame to operate.

I can look at it either way.  In reality it’s a constant process, but at any moment in time it would have to be looked at from one perspective or another.  It’s simple, either weight causes the chassis to work and the working of the chassis applies the weight, or weight instantly transfers and then the weight from it’s new location causes the chassis to function.  Six of one and a half a dozen of the other. … :)

Long story short, if on track needs are such, that I want to bang weight into the track to making a tire operate as needed to provide required grip, I’ll go with shorter stiffer levers and if I need to ease or finesse a tire into the track, I’ll go with longer, softer levers.

 

After reading again today others inputs, I’m going to say a softer axle is akin to my thoughts on longer softer levers verses shorter stiffer levers.

Now there has also been input on here about how one chassis needs one thing and another needs just the opposite.  The ONLY difference that ever occurs is in the final application of the tire to the track.  It’s all a matter of how close or away you are, from the limit of grip of individual tires.

One stiffer chassis may direct forces with a softer axle in such a manner that the outside rear tire lets loose.  Another softer chassis with a stiffer axle may do exactly the same.   It’s all about the spring rate, and the length and flexibility of the levers  involved, applying weight to your tires.  It’s not just about knowing the capabilities of your tires and your chassis ability to apply weight, it’s knowing if your racing situation requires you to bang the tire into the track to be fast or if your going to need to ease the tire into the track to be fast.

 

You can calculate things 100% accurately given what you have to calculate.  But in the end, racing is about application, not calculation.

 

thanks  for reading and I never know if I’m close to right or not because this is all just IMHO and ain’t necessairly right anyway. … :)

[Paul Kish]

Thank you all again for the input.

[Paul Kish]

Thank you for the info.

 

 

paul

[Paul Kish]

You take your kart to the track “baselined” or at the track you put it to what ever “baseline” you use.  You can baseline your kart to your best guess starting point, either on or off the stand.  You can do it either way so long as the results are the same every time.  If results change when your baselining, either something got bent, worn out.

After that it’s all about making changes to fix on track problems.  If you going to make a mechanical change logically needed to try to fix an on track problem, it isn’t going to make any difference weather you make the change on the stand, on the ground and weather the driver is in or out of the kart.  That is so long as you can isolate what ever mechanical change your making, from outside influence.  That means if your going to change something at the right front corner, put something under the right front corner so there  will not be any binds on what your mechanically doing.  Putting the kart on the stand will help keep outside influences from effecting your mechanical doings.   It’s about how good a mechanic you are when you make the change and what mechanical considerations you automatically include when you work on things mechanical.

 

In a nut shell, it doesn’t matter one bit so long as your not a poorly skilled sloppy mechanic.

[Paul Kish]

<span style=”color: rgb(68, 68, 68); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(239, 239, 239);”>”But how can you travel at a faster-than-entry-speed rate at apex without accelerating? You can’t speed up without accelerating.”</span>

 

If I said or implied to go faster then entry speed no acceleration was needed, I wrote in error.  I think or at least tired to indicate two different times in which acceleration would be applied.  The first is to gain a speed slightly higher then entry speed and carry it thru the “arc” portion how ever long or short it may be and the second is what I think any of you would consider normal acceleration onto the straight.  I’m not telling anyone to change anything if they do not like or disagree.  I’m suggesting a possible use of a technique I have never seed discussed on here or elsewhere.  If it cannot work then fine.  But if it can and you do not attempt to learn it, your throwing away speed.

 

The the two IGNERT name callers on here.  Stick you troll name calling where the sun don’t shine.  And I hope a moderator can delete both your attacks and my reply here in this post.  I thought this site is generally without such attacks and it is only an over sight.

[Paul Kish]

I’m done, I’m taking my BS and going home.

[Paul Kish]

And thank you Sir for the kind reply.

[Paul Kish]

Rule #1:

Anytime you think, hear or see, push in loose out, look first for a fix from the driver.

 

The problem is likely to go away by magic.

 

paul

[Paul Kish]

“Paul, how does your theory work in a flat out high G type of corner? Since you have admitted that you are not a driver this means a corner that is taken without lifting or braking but is a challenging corner.”

I don’t know, try it and see if it works.

 

If your able to put the pedal to the metal in a high G corner it’s not going to work.  It won’t work because your entry speed was slow because of being a slug on the straight, you have setup and grip issues, maybe driving issues or it’s a corner in the course where speeds are so slow there is no application there for it.  I think I prefaced in my first post entry will be at the  limit of grip.  If entry is not at the limit of grip, then it has no application.  I forgot how  seldom a sprint or road racer is actually racing at the limit. … :)  just havin fun with words.

 

thinking about it some more.  If your on a track with 15 turns, unless your a really bad driver, are there really more then one or two turns where speeds are such you actually have a chance of loosing grip and  spinning or pushing?  My thinking is the biggest slow factor sprint racing beyond lack of hp is pushing and  if you do push it’s generally because you didn’t brake enough and has  nothing at all to do with driver skill at turn in or beyond.

 

I’m not a driver now but I did drive and found out i’m not any good at it.  If it makes you feel better talking down to me, do it but it’s not necessary I will generally understand what you say relating to racing.  If I don’t I’m not afraid to ask for help understanding.

___________________________

 

If there is no possibility of using this technique sprint racing, we  can easily end this now without any need for further conversation.  I’m confident what I presented or tried to present is a valid possibility.    If  it’s not then it’s not and sorry I wasted your time and others time.

 

… but I  am correct. … :)    maybe?

 

[Paul Kish]

It’s inserting a driving line which is an arc, between entry and the start of full acceleration.  The ‘arc’ driving line  is able to be taken at a speed slightly higher then entry speed.  It can be taken at a speed higher then entry because of dynamic redistribution of weight more evenly across the outside tires.   Normal controlled immediate change to acceleration on out to exit after entry, must be maintained on a fine  line of acceleration.  A little too much and your loose or pushing.  A little too less and grip will grab a hold of you and slow you down.   On the other hand if you can run a distance at a slightly elevated speed until your in a better position to make a straighter finial acceleration, total time through the turn can be reduced and time spent going more straight can be increased.  Instead of turning in and riding a ragged edge trying to get as much acceleration to the point where the straight takes over, you roll through the turn a little on a line which is an arc, at a speed slightly higher then entry, then make your final turn and controlled acceleration onto the straight.

 

But if you read through this, you will find I accepted the fact that most turns will have more grip then needed and this will only apply to a turn where either limited grip to begin with,  hp or  momentum puts you at the limit of grip.  Any time you start to bicycle or are running on the edge of it, this does not apply.  You have to see it to believe it. … :)

or maybe experience it?  Either way, take it all with a grain of salt because I’m not a driver, just an observer and bs’er about my observations.

I have though in the distant  past raced in the rain.  In the rain are you “not”, prone to try to roll the corners as much as you can, in an arc?  And then trying your best to hold off acceleration until you have it pointing straight?  What I guess I’m adding to that is the ‘arc’ itself you take rolling the corner, can put you on a straighter line sooner.  maybe ?

[Paul Kish]

Thank you all for the conversation.  I got up this morning with a thought which puts this out of the realm of sprint racing or road racing.  I am wrong trying to relate oval racing with far less turns to sprint and road racing.  I think now with the number of turns compared to oval racing and being able to put just one setup on the track,  the possibility of a sprint or road race kart running at it’s limit of potential is very slim.

I can see now where compared to oval racing, sprint racing is very seldom racing at the limit.   I’ll guess  now most of the time sprint racing your glued to the track, with only maybe one or two turns on the circuit, able to be anything other then just a Sunday drive with gobs of grip.  Just don’t go too fast or turn too sharp or you’ll tip over, is the main concern.  But even so I do think the couple of turns at the limit, might be helped by inserting an ‘arc’.   It’s sure not going to help the rest of the turns, where excessive grip is the main thing your battling to be fast.

[Paul Kish]

You might try this to see what I’m referring too.  Go to the driving line picture posted towards the bottom of the page, straighten or  change the ‘red’ braking entry line a little and add in a ‘blue’ arc of ‘what ever length you might see fits’ between the end of the ‘red’ line and the beginning of the ‘yellow’ line.  The blue line can be very short even in inches or it can be longer.  The ‘blue’ arc line will set up the possibility to do two things for you.  The first thing is it can change your ‘green’ acceleration exit line.  The most obvious thing it will do is to cause a portion of the ‘yellow’ line and portions of the ‘green’ line to become straighter.  It not only will allow for exit to start sooner on a straighter line, it can also allow for the entry line to be straighter up to the ‘arc’.  The second thing is what I explained previously in this thread, about because dynamic weight has been redistributed, a slight acceleration can be inputted and the whole of the ‘blue’ arc can be taken at a slightly higher speed.  You can end up with both longer straights, because of a straighter exit and longer straights because of a straighter entry.  Put together more time being spent going straighter and being able to take portion of the turn at a slightly higher speed and it’s a possible win win situation.  And isn’t this whole thing about winning? … :)

 

Here’s the url on here to the posted driving line.  I understand the thoughts about break and then have controlled gradual acceleration to your exit line and I’m not knocking it.  I’m adding in another possibility to go fast, between the end of your deceleration and the start of your controlled finishing turning and acceleration onto the straight.  What happens if you gradually accelerate is your constantly at odds with either too much grip verses hp or too much momentum and hp verses grip.  It’s a fine line with one side of the line being loose or push and the other side of the line grinding off speed.  What I’m proposing is a way to run a portion of the line through the turn as a slightly elevated more easily controlled speed, once you learn how to put yourself at the elevated speed.  Or it’s not because this is all just IMHO and ain’t necessairly right anyway. … :)

 

It’s a very tough driving skill to learn.  I know of a multiple track champion with years or racing and the holder of a record for the most ever wins in his class at a track, who is just now putting an effort into learning how to do it.  I think he use to do it but bad habits and age caught up to him a little and now he’s again making effort to learn it.

 

ps… It doesn’t matter if you put yourself at the limit of grip and fast though hp, controlling grip or maintaining maximum momentum, fast is to be able to run at the limit of grip on the best line.  I’m just suggesting there might be a portion of the line, not usually looked at which may help being fast.  maybe ?

 

ok here’s the url:

https://new.ekartingnews.com/forums/topic/driving-slow-in-slow-out/

[Paul Kish]

I just now read through what I wrote the other night and edited three words.  I took out the words ‘front’ and ‘rear’ when referring to forces working.   And I changed later the word ‘at’ to be an ‘a’.  Reads better to me now with the reference to front tires braking on deceleration and rear tires working on acceleration, removed.

I realize your saying you don’t see it possible.  I’m saying it is possible and done.  I saw Dale Blaney do it tonight and set a new track record at Mercer Raceway Park.   A friend and myself were talking about it’s possibility before the race and we were not sitting near each other during qualifying.  He was at one end of the track and I was at the other.

After qualifying I went to him and asked him if he noticed anything special when Dale was going through turns one and two.  He said yep and I asked him if the yep was about what we were talking about prior to the race.  He said yes and I said ya know what, I heard it and saw it in three and four; and I came down to talk to you to see if you observed it in one and two.

You have to look for it happening or you will not see it and every driver is not able to do it.  It’s one of those things that when you do see it, at first you sort of won’t believe it’s happening and you’ll wonder if your tricking yourself into seeing it happen.  In my opinion, it’s real.  And in my opinion it’s not an obvious thing to see.

First the driver for what ever reason, does have to make an effort to operate what their racing in a particular manner.  There either going to do it because they have found it to be fast out of experience or they have to be taught about the possibility of it occurring.  They also have to have the skill to do it.

 

 

[Paul Kish]

I have no point other then to show there is something else which can be used somewhere in the process of taking a corner, which is not generally considered.

 

Let’s make one assumption through out what you presented.  The assumption is your whole purpose is to be fast and to be fast you must run at the absolute limit of grip.  It doesn’t matter if your at the limit while braking, accelerating or in between braking and accelerating, your still at the limit of grip.  It’s easy to see and relate to being at the limit while decelerating or braking.  What’s tough to understand is the “in between” part and to bring in forces to the picture.  Slowing down forces are generally directed forward, putting more stress towards the front tires.  During acceleration forces are generally directed toward the rear, putting more stress on the rear tires.  You only slow down in the first place because forward forces stress the tires and the only thing limiting your acceleration is hp and stress put on the tires.

If that’s ok so far, there is a point “in between” slowing down and accelerating when forces are shifting from front towards the rear, where because grip is split better between front and rear some acceleration can be applied prior to final acceleration and maintained during a period using a driving line which will be an ‘arc’.  It may be a very small distance measured in inches or it may be depending on the turn be measured in feet of travel.  It is also a tool used in addition to what you wrote to help set your point of final acceleration and exit.  Nothing at all changes your description of thought about how a corner is taken, it’s only something else which can be used.  The only reason it’s possible is because forces through a turn, at some time will redirect themselves from front to back.  And at some time in the process over all lateral grip will be higher then when either decelerating or accelerating.  It’s the use of the moment in time “in between” deceleration and acceleration to slightly increase and maintain speed on a line best described by an “arc”.

I’m sure you can relate to some turns where you can and do roll the corner a bit.  I’m saying most turns can contain a portion where they are rolled a small amount  and during that time a maintained speed higher then entry is possible.

_________________________________

1) threshold brake until you reach the point you want to turn in. It takes a while to be consistent, to not brake too late so that you end up understeering–pushing–through the apex, or braking too soon, therefore having to coast up to the turn-in point. You don’t want to start the turn-in too soon, which could result in a whole host of problems.

2) turn in enough so that you lift the inside rear tire, not so much that you oversteer or bind up the kart, and not so little that the tire drops back down too soon, thereby bogging the motor and / or inducing understeer.

“>>>> maybe insert my BS above here. … :)

3) roll onto the throttle, not so soon or so hard that the rear end breaks away (oversteer) on exit. This can be confusing because rolling onto the throttle too soon or too hard could also cause the rear of the kart to drop too soon, bogging the motor… (snip)

__________________________

“Frankly, unwinding the steering wheel and rolling onto the throttle are aspects that overlap, and to me should be considered together, not as separate activities.”

And frankly to me. … :) , there is a possibility they do not always continually overlap.

[Paul Kish]

I think you need to take the check without expressing or agreeing it’s a complete settlement, sue the builder for the difference if there not willing to make it up to you, and let the builder worry about getting reimbursed from UPS.  It’s the builders fault and problem they didn’t insure it for enough, not your problem.

Your only problem is getting compensated for the builder not returning the engine to you.

Your not a customer in this , of UPS.  They took a package from your builder and they assume the person they took the package from owns what’s in the package.  They don’t care if who receives the package owns what’s in it or not.

[Paul Kish]

TJ wrote:

“If we’re going to discuss about driving dynamics, we’d have to start a different topic because there’s a lot more that goes into it other than what line you’re taking. In sprint karting we have to worry about how much we are loading the outside rear and keeping the inside rear unloaded, working with steering inputs as well as throttle and brake modulation.”

Let’s do it. … :)  I don’t mind hijacking my own thread.

I’ll go first and relate it to what I posted on your driving.  Let’s see if were maybe on the same page.  Naturally I’m going to bring some of my way of seeing things in too.  But if we both learn to see the same thing but now from two different directions, it can’t be all bad can it?

Let’s get back to your turn in which gained you so much ground on your competitors.  And to put us closer to being on the same page and to help show I maybe do understand a little about unloading the inside rear; lets also bring in what you explained about the need to control the unloaded inside rear.

Notice out of courtesy I wrote unloaded inside rear instead of writing unloading of the inside rear.  Same church, just different pew. … :)

To bring our thoughts together I have to present something else and hope you agree with it.  Turn in and how you actually perform your turn in, is the number one thing which will determine your exit line.

I’ll expand on that a little and try to make it more straight forward.  The sharper your turn in, the sooner or lower in the corner you will locate your exit.  The more you round out the actual initial effort of turn in, the later or farther out on the track you will exit.

:) Again out of courtesy I used the word round in place of arc.  Actually though ‘arc’ would not really be the appropriate word to use in this case.  Because your exit is going to need to be as straight as you can go, as soon as practical.

If your with me so far, lets now consider and define what is practical in terms of what you inputted in your reply.

What determines if your line is practical is when you >load< the inside rear.  Specifically load it too soon and you’ll grind off speed and never catch the karts ahead.

I’ll assume I’m correct so far or at least we have an understanding.

So that turn you make to shorten the distance, also has to be rounded out enough so it will keep the inside rear unloaded until your able to exit on your intended straight line.  The only thing that’s going to allow you to efficiently cut the distance and catch them, now becomes how sharp you made your actual initial turn in.

The only way you can control the shape, is with fine driver control to smoooooth the steering wheel during the quick motion of the initial turn in.

Well, I went and put my heart and head out there again.  I hope it allowed me to pull it out of my butt some.  But heck maybe just the opposite happened, because I don’t know what’s on others minds, only my own.

 

paul

 

ps… again I hope my reply is seen as only addressing physical things which I see happen or can happen on the track and are not seen as arguing.

 

 

[Paul Kish]

Greg, I play a lot of on line poker and sometimes no matter how bad you want to win and no matter how hard Greed is poking you in the back, your going to loose and you know it.

Yep, your bet is a winner and I know it.

But I’m trying to show what I think is a possibility, even  though it ain’t going to happen.

[Paul Kish]

TJ:  I don’t think there’s much of a chance it will ever happen.  It won’t happen because nobody will let it happen and there will not likely be a grass roots effort strong enough for it to happen.  And to say what I just said, it has to also be possible.  Some things are just impossible huh? … :)

 

paul

 

ps TJ:  If it’s not proper or you don’t like me addressing you as TJ, please say so and I’ll change my ways.  The PS is about your driving.  I watched just one ‘on kart’ video you posted and I was very impressed.  You caught karts not because your kart was faster, you caught them because others lines were not efficient and you drove a better line.  You were on high grip asphalt but I may as well been watching a skilled driver on slick dirt, it was cool.  I’ll not comment on your driving line and why I think it was great, I’ll comment on the line of those you were able to catch.  And from that I figure or hope you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.  I think I was watching a TAG race video, where if you had a decent engine it would be no better or worse then anyone else.  I have another ‘Rule #1’.  The rule is the only reason to round out a turn is if it allows you to maintain momentum or you have enough available hp that you can gain an advantage accelerating over the increased distance.  The net of it is the karts I watched you catch were slow, because they ran a rounded line trying to be smooooooth which extended their distance traveled.  And they did not have the hp available to take advantage of the additional distance traveled.  I wasn’t going to comment on what you did but if you were on an oval it would sort of relate it to diamonding off a turn.  You effectively reduced the amount of time your spent turning and increased the amount of time spent going in a more straight direction.  What I also noticed is when doing it instead of killing a lot of speed diamonding off the turn, … :) your turn to do it was more of an … … you really don’t want me to say that word do you… :) …   an … ‘arc’ ?

paul

Impressive and fun to watch the video.  Now if I can just get you to quit transferring so much hp and acceleration so often, to the kart ahead of you… :)

Hope what I wrote was fun to read and didn’t get you mad.  I think it’s totally wrong to race with the goal of having fun, but I think it’s ok to write and BS with the goal of having fun and to get or give an occasional smile.

[Paul Kish]

“I would have to say Paul you’re showing a little ignorance on this subject with that comment.

MB”

 

Michael, I am totally ignorant about a lot of things you all do and the equipment you use sprint racing.

I am not totally ignorant about what it takes to get around a turn, what determines how available hp needs to be applied, per available grip and how tires need to be used to do it efficiently.  I’m not about this is how we do it.  I’m about this is what needs done and understanding different things being raced have different abilities to do what needs done.

If I have a dream in all this it’s to be able to be able to define what needs done.

 

paul

 

and I’m about being wrong on most stuff

[Paul Kish]

“If someone showed up with one, they would be in the back.”

 

I’ll bet there are more then just a few racers reading on here that are saying, hummmm.. maybe?  That’s why there racers.

 

Thank you for the reply, I hope my response was not just arguing.

 

paul

 

 

[Paul Kish]

“So it seems to me at least we would need to loosen the inside rear to turn the outside quicker.”

 

All my bull is ONLY suggesting a specific thing to look at about how the inside rear is ‘loosened’.

I’m suggesting altering ‘how’ some of the effort which is needed to loosen the inside rear might be changed or applied to unload the inside rear from a slightly different direction.

It doesn’t matter how you lift or unload the inside rear, you pretty much can’t lift the inside rear without “FIRST” being in the process of turning.

If your already turning when the inside rear is unloaded, which you are or you couldn’t unload it in the first place, there is already a twist put into the tire.  If you control how forces are loading the inside rear tire, you can also somewhat control how much twisting is needed before the tire starts to slip or you can think about it as starting to unload.  If you can reduce the amount of twist needed before the inside rear unloads as needed, then you can shift a little weight from the outside rear to the inside rear.

You’ll be able to then get through the corner with less combined slip angle and less precious momentum taken away, everyone needs to conserve.  And when hp is applied, it can be applied sooner because re-introducing the inside rear to the track will be delayed, because of how you altered the ability to twist the tire.

Nothing about this will be dramatic.  It’s just a slight thing which may save a fraction of a tenth somewhere around the track.  But as I like to say, “How much is a (fraction of a) tenth worth?”.

Without going back and finding it, someone commented on how in different classes it has been demonstrated that a more laid down configuration can be surprisingly competitive.  I’m adding in all classes they cannot only be competitive but superior if allowed to be pursued, because of what I’m trying to explain.  The powers to be have seen it and to keep the status quo and support their pocket books, over a normal racers normal dream and pursuit to go fast, rules are being put in place.

 

Don’t read below the line unless you are willing to do so with an open mind and the understanding I’m not knocking anything, just ranting about what I’d like to see.

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I’m not knocking any kind of racing, but it saddens me there is no ‘open’ racing anymore with karts and  cars.

Hey those who are good will be good and win no matter what kind of speck, strictly controlled racing there doing.  Common now there’s nothing wrong with it but, yammaha can, pipe, tag, etc., it’s all just high dollar, you got to buy into my club racing, with very limited innovation.  I see no difference between yammi can racing, tag racing or briggs racing.  It’s all just speck racing with only limited difference and limited hp.  The only reason to limit what can be done with the seat is for control and profit.

The sprint kart powers to be who are hooked up with this manufacture or that manufacture and feed off of them, would all shake in there boots if a UAS type rules brand of open innovative kart racing hit the lefty  righty ranks.

Common now, wouldn’t you all like to take your tony karts, top karts or what ever is popular now and throw 50+ hp on them and weight them out so they can compete and beat super karts?  Not knowing much about super karts, I just assume there the fast stuff.

Wouldn’t ya like to sit on total rocket ships and race what your mind can dream about?  Yeah, there would still be limits, but only limits to the kind of weapon your sitting on and not about how much your willing to sit your butt on ‘fast’. … :)

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