[Bob Vehring]

I agree with Greg, very good David
I think sometimes people do not get the point behind some of my posts, currently those about WKA. I think now more then ever we need one strong group driving our sport. I think most of the newer groups are too narrowly focussed, but I don’t see WKA now as having the leadership it did years ago. So where is this going to be in a year? I can tell from what happened to some of the once great tracks around here and are now gone or close to it. Once the numbers drop to a certain point, it becomes very hard to save. I don’t want to see that happen.

I guess my point here to what David is asking is I know during the RA years and also for club champions, Badger trophy biles were tens of thousands of dollars. With so many different classes, it takes entries to get those really great trophies.
David, is there a way to post pictures on here?

[Bob Vehring]

David, the issue really is a little deeper then that, or should be.
You are a life long road racer which gives you a bit of a different perspective then TaG racer who have only done small sprint tracks. For those not understanding this, enticing sprint people to the long tracks is what this is about

So lets be honest about this whole deal. Road Racing is different then sprint and ovals and a downside is sometimes, some people don’t make it home. If you were reading the other forum, you will see a list of questions, started by me but added to by others that should e asked or at least stated to make people aware of the differences. These questions were not only for Tag, but anyone coming over to a big track from a sprint background.

How often do you reach speed of over 100MPH?

Are you comfortable at that speed for between 1/2 mile and 3 miles at a time?

Are you ok at that speed with no run off room, walls or Armco at tracks edge?

Are you used to running with 50-100 other karts at the same time? Some much faster then you, some much slower?

There were more questions but I’m not digging for them now, must be 5 or 6 threads on Bob’s on this. The point here is simple again this gets sold to the voting trustees, most of which have little to no understanding of big tracks and only told this will help bring new entries, the rest is not explained to them. I have asked several time for WKA to address this, they choose not to.

A second issue I consider serious, I have asked and received no answer to is this. The dual brake rule came in in early 2000’s (?) as a result of a serious incident then. We, were told by WKA that this was needed to address serious safety issues and went in across the board. So my question is, after making that statement, and they now remove it in the name of gaining entries, if a serious incident did happen, lawyers became involved, what now is WKA’s liability? Were serious lawyers consulted on this before the vote? Again no answer.

David you were around for much of Road America. As that race grew, several changes had to be made to help with safety. First I wrote a 3 page paper available to all explaining the differences between Sprint and Road Racing, and yes there were people Bingo and I took off the track.
The second was, while the RWYB class served a needed class as a catch-all for people not fitting other classes, We had to eliminate it. As faster karts became common, Shifter and Tag back then, it became clear that more and more racers were using that class to put out friends, relatives, crew. in to equipment that far exceeded their talent. That made it unsafe for everyone out there.

I’ve spent 30 years in this sport, most of it doing promotion. I understand where were at here, but you never can put new entries ahead of safety

[Bob Vehring]

Sit up sprint Animal has to have dual brakes also, its the classes that are faster yet run in our group that don’t have to have them
If you look at the minutes, you will see the 2 Trustees that actually race this voted no, it was passed by the others

[Bob Vehring]

10 years ago the clone movement started in american karting, very quickly took over the dirt world. Alot of people said there was no way a cheap engine, copy of a Honda, then shipped here and sold everywhere for then, 100 bucks could hold up. Well it did, changed the whole 4 cy world
BTW don’t misunderstand this, I hate cloans, my point is, inside, the cloan is a well built engine that lasted very well. So I guess my question is as I stand here in the center of the US, why does stuff from my left cost so little, and stuff from my right cost so much?

[Bob Vehring]

Hey Dale, If the CIK guys don’t want to pay $1500 for a set of brakes, tell them they can buy a complete American chassis for that, take the brakes of and throw the rest away……..OK I bet those guys don’t like the 4 cy sense of humor.

I understand that if asked some people may agree to relaxing the safety rule to bring more people into their world I be willing to bet those people never had the job of getting people off the wall, that wern’t going home that night. In my years at RA,I had that job, twice. It does change you way of thinking.

So where do you draw the line? Cloans and LO are considerably slower, at Blackhawk we lap LO206 in a 15 min race. I don’t think we have any cloans

Now Tag or any of the like classes. They are a bunch faster the BP Animal on the straights, no question, but we do not slow down near as much in a corner as they do.
So was the decission on which classes were to be involved based solely on wanting to bring in new entries? or was safety/speed considered? From your post above it states that it was unanimous among committee yet you refer to limited and I believe you guys thought it was a CIK body G cup class You also refer to BP Animal as the “the slowest kart on the track ” from the 4 cy side, its the second fastest behind Limited. To me, its seams clear that other then Jack, I doubt most of the Comm. understand our world deeply. Thats not a slam because I’m the first to admit, I don’t understand TaG or laydown, but I would never try to make rules for them.
Dale we both know, this is done, it doesn’t matter anymore, WKA has done as they saw fit. My best hope is it gave people something to think about

[Bob Vehring]

Dale, nice to see things are starting to get posted. I think you will find, I’m not the enemy, I just push, sometimes hard when it seems things are stuck.

IMO Karting needs to be run by one strong national group rather then this mess we have now with so many different groups. I have no doubt that at least some at WKA still feel they hold that position. Seems to me that at least oval and 2 cy sprint have moved on, now RR’ing is splitting. Other groups are vying to take over the sport. Now this is just my opinion, but based on what I’ve seen over the last two decades If WKA continues to operate as it has, things will not change. Thats what has cost so much
Let RR people run their series, let sprint people run theirs. I am not against elected trustees, we (racers) just need to make our choice for the series that WE race in, not have other make the calls for us. In other words I would vote for a trustee for RR. A sprint person would vote for their trustee to run M Cup or G cup. Geographic boundaries have no bearing on anything anymore.
I am watching for you minutes to be posted, we will see if the brake decision was voted in based on what RR’ers said, or what other series people thought was right for us.
The ruling I just read really doesn’t make sense to me. Yes you kept the dual system on Animals, but you removed it from all the Tag or Tag type classes. Those guys are not only faster then us, they race in our group, so if there is a failure, I guess we could still be in it.
Now for the one that really doesn’t make sense. Stock Animal, 11 hp, 96 mph has to have the dual system. Thats our slowest class. Limited Mod, 16 hp 112 mph, only needs a single system. Please explain the logic here.

[Bob Vehring]

Really Clark, as a WKA offical thats your answer? Where is something from Mr Ferris, where is the new business plan, where are your races going to be, whats coming in the midwest, what was the outcome of the brake rule vote and how did the trustees vote?

Exactly what has been said by WKA that I can give any positive feedback on?

In the roughly 2 months since this has gone down, AKRA has put together a Sprint and Road Race program from scratch, and announced it.

Dart has separated from WKA, put together their own game, and announced it.

CES/Tag has adapted its rules package, got together with the above groups and now has all racing here, on the same page, and announced it.

WKA has, well I guess been offended by my posts.

Respect is earned by your actions, show me something impressive and I’m your best friend

[Bob Vehring]

Certainly, I can’t say I haven’t noticed the same things as Kevin, but I have to ask this. Seeing how that problem has gone on for decades, probably longer, so many people, big and small fired, then blamed for the problems. How is it there is a post on Bobs this weekend from a WKA offical, I quote’

” “The good news is that way of thinking is gone at WKA. Those people are now running the AKRA series. ”

Blaming this round of problems on the current group who left, so Really after all these rounds you guys haven’t found a group yet capable of running this without problems. Maybe, just maybe, the problem is bigger, maybe its because running WKA falls on the shoulders of a group of trustees. FOr as long as I have been around, my trustee has been a Man Cup person. While there have been many, none ever knew much about Road Racing, 4 cy, ovals or dirt, again they were strictly Man Cup people. That doesn’t make them bad, but it doesn’t make them qualified to run the other series. Then of course we have to get to running the business of WKA, which needs to be done by business people etc.

The comments made here about have Van and Rick made RR’ing better or worse, which sounds like he means entry numbers really addresses very little.
Other then fighting the cost of gas/travel etc everything faces, I think RR has held on well. M Cup of course has gone right down the crapper because of direct challenges from several other groups. G cup and both oval series I think took the hit well before the Rick and Van show took over.
I think the most important question, and I really don’t have the answer is this, Did Rick and Van dig WKA out of a very deep financial hole., What I hear says, yes and put some serious money in the bank for WKA. Too me while WKA never have been very public about money, this show that they did do a good job of handling what needed to be done. Again to me, thats a good sign of leadership

Now If your following along at Bobs, you know I have been asking if there was any kind of statement made by Mr Ferris. I never heard of him until 2 months ago. What is his background, is he a road racer? what is his business experience? so far not a word. Again if following at Bobs, AKRA makes announcements, As does Dart, and CES. This alone does not make the new WKA look good.

[Bob Vehring]

Jon’s post above is 100% right, then again its 100% wrong, mostly because your comparing many different types of Animals.
We have raced animals since day 1, actually several years before it had the Animal name, we started with Intec’s.
Most people recognize the LO 206, WF, and Animal names, there’s actually several variations and more versions of these.
Heres a rough set of HP numbers
LO 206 8.8
WKA/IKF Animal 10.5-11
WKA Limited 14-15
Opens 24 is easy, 30 is possible

That leaves WF which is kind of a odd duck. World Formula came about overseas as the name of a complete class. This was at a time when CIK though once again the end of 2 strokes was around the corner. The concept was for multiple engine brands and there was a set of guidelines the proposed engines would need to meet. Notable here is all engines were to make 15 hp
Does a Briggs WF make 15 hp? Out of the box, not on our dyno, but more important , CAN IT? Absolutly.
The WF uses a bigger cam, bigger carb and more compression then the Animal. Those things allow it to make more power then an Animal, HOWEVER, if you understand engines and making power, those things produce that extra power at a higher RPM. The Briggs WF has a Rev limiter to increase life and keep things under control. Take it from 7 grand to 8 grand or more and there plenty more HP there.

One other thing that should be touched on here as long as your comparing speeds. My kids have done Road Racing since they were 12, Theres a great deal of differance in chassis in this. For Animals we have classes that use chassis right off the sprint track, we also have Road Race class that use Sit up sprint body work. Not a lay down chassis, but far faster then a sprint track body work kart with a full 38 in nose. CIK body work is about useless for Areo ( yes we’ve run classes with it)
At Blackhawk Farms, a 2 mile track in the midwest, using exactly the same engine rules (WKA BP), sit up sprint karts will lap the sprint karts in a 15 min race.
The second race at Blackhawk as far as I know was the first time a Stock BP Animal broke 100 MPH. We have been in the 95-98 range for years. Limited Mod Animals are usually in the 110 mph range. Remember these speeds are with extremely good Road Race specific chassis, not CIK. To understand that compare CIK, 125 shifter times, to the road race 125 shifters. Areo is everything

[Bob Vehring]

Whats a TUNER??? Well, a Tuner is someone that people with money pay alot to teach them the same thing he has taught to other people with money so they can all be the same speed without having to figure it out themselves

Well ok, at least thats my take on it. You can pay even more money, and park under someone elses tent

[Bob Vehring]

I think Jeff Wesell just might remember this, and he and my kids are perfect examples why having simple and nation wide classes helps us all.

Yes there are differances in sleds and karts, probably not as much as you think but, we just can say karting doesn’t have the ability to get a prime TV deal. We actually had it for several years on ESPN2, a series called Sat Night lightning. It air every say night at 6:30 pm so pretty prime time. It was billed as live, but in reality most often two races were filmed each time we went down to Indy, which was every two weeks. One race played live, the other was filmed live and broadcast the next weekend.
Structure was very simple, two classes KT100 and Briggs FH. that was it and people came from everywhere.
I really can’t think of anything that brought the sport that kind of publicity then or now, everyone saw it and it lasted I think 3 years.

The reason this show just popped up was very simple The old Diamond P productions sent their crew to Indy every other week to do a show called Thur. Night Thunder which was cars at IRP, as long as the crew was there it was very simple to do a second series and the perfect place for it was right down the road. There it was and it worked very well and again, the best PR we ever had

[Bob Vehring]

Were in a situation now, where each engine Manufacturer has carved out an area and put together its own series. They fight desperately for their series.
Like any well run business they understand supply and demand of their product. This means they come up with a new engine plan, we all have to buy in to it if we want to race. Problem is after a season or two, most of the available market HAS bought into it, so in order to maintain sales at the level they need, its time for a new engine package again. This isn’t going to change if we continue in this same direction.
What is now referred to as kartings glory years as far as participation had a major differance, our world was controlled in the east by WKA and the west by IKF. Not that there weren’t some problems with that plan, but both were member owned/run groups that controlled where and what we do, NOT private enterprizes.

We have been involved for a decade also in the snowmobile racing world, they have yet a different plan to make sure things there, do not spin out of control.
This is run somewhat differently. It is controlled by a group called ISR. ISR does not make the rules, they host meetings yearly for each group (ovals, snow X, drags, cross country etc of racing. Each meeting is made up of reps from the various race venues, manufacturers, parts suppliers and race promoters.Each group has two people at the meeting and one vote.
Ideas or issues are submitted throughout the year, a agenda is sent out by ISR and once each spring the meeting is held.
To pass, any issue must get a majority of the votes in the room. With every group well represented it is very hard for any one group or any one area to get anything passed that is biased. For the most part it keeps every race, every class fair and equal, many classes rules are written into the rule book then froze for a period of 5 years to keep them stable for the racers.

THis concept works here because ISR has done a good job of running the sport. All big races are ISR snanchoined, ISR works out a very good ins. program for their racers, they have a big influence in things like major sponsors and TV coverage which is big in this sport.They help make the sport big and its big across two countries because its stabil and its structure is well controlled.
Basicly all serious races are ISR because of what ISR does to make good races.

The kart world seems unfortunately to be heading exactly in the opposite direction, and were letting it happen

[Bob Vehring]

Jack, you are one of the good guys, know how much you have done. At this point in my mind the way it was in the past is now over. The question is how will it proceed in the future
Here IMO is the scariest part of this whole deal. In the past as certain things tried to get changed, and lets not pretend some did not attempt this always in the political right manor, There always was a uproar from either this forum, or its 4 cy counterpart sometimes both.A system of checks and balances to some degree.
Now looking here in this post, several of us tried to get some response to this quite awhile before the “official announcement” came out a few days ago. Not a peep, same at 4 cy. Have we reached the time where people do not care anymore? we will have that answer in a few weeks.
I hope racers remember that despite the problems of the past outside of IKF teritory if that still exsits out there, WKA I think is one of the only series around anymore that is a member own org.. I hope someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe most of the other series out there now are owned and run by a person or group and in most cases have very strong ties to, the equipment used in that series.

[Bob Vehring]

Well now that its finally out there, I was expecting, a bit more talk also. As George said, maybe its to late. I hope not, and I hope the current trustees can really see the problems of the past and what led to this.
I would guess that each form of karting has their own list of what went wrong, that alone points to the most serious of the problems.
Tonight I got a notification that trustee nominations are beginning in 4 districts
WKA is made up of, dirt oval, asph. oval, 4 cy sprint, 2 cy sprint, and Road Race series. Your elected officials that represent you and make your vote, are based on geographic area. Nothing about that makes sence.
I live in an area that for as long as I can remember, my trustee has been a 2 cy, Man Cup guy. Nothing wrong with that, but few have understood anything about my 4 cy, road race or oval, questions. Calling others from a outside area really went nowhere because they weren’t “my” rep.

This is not a new concept, I have had this conversation going back to Randy, certainly Rick and Van’s time. Look at it logically, A Man Cup guy doesn’t understand Dirt, a Dirt guy can’t run Road Race. Road Race guys probably don’t get Gold cup. This didn’t work in the past, and it won’t work any better in the future. Members need to elect the people they want to represent them, but it has to be by the series they race in.

I’ve been politically involved in this sport for a very long time, people run for a position because they want to help what they race in. They generally have a good understanding of the series they race but in 30 years, I’ve never met anyone that was very well versed in all 5 types of karting. To succeed this has to change so each group can run itself, so racers have direct input into the series they actually run, not be governed by others that know nothing about their series

[Bob Vehring]

I’ve always been somewhat insulted that Yamaha has no problem spending big money on bikes and sleds, including at times factory race teams, yet since my start in 1983 I could never see one place where they spent a dime trying to help the sport of karting survive.
I would tend to think that had a lot to do with other engines coming into our sport.

[Bob Vehring]

For the better part of 30 years, I was a Board dir for one of the larger sprint tracks in the upper midwest, my kids have also spent some time in dirt ovals. Alot can, and should be learned from the past and what has changed.

The problem with the Rotax / Briggs LO type of thinking is that is what has eliminated most of the aftermarket that has supported this sport
Pick up a WKA manual from the prime years of Daytona, Dirt, it had 75 major sponsors for that series alone. at that time it was roughly $1500. to be a sponsor. With the entry numbers and the sponsors, at that time all of karting was subsadised to some degree by dirt.
The sponsor thing goes far beyond the big races, every engine builder I have met, parts suppliers all over all work with their local track.
Badger is well known for all the show and promotion we do, still out largest source of new racers come from the shops that bring in their new customers to our track. The shops are the foot soldiers that keep us going.

The problem with the all spec world is, you only have what they offer you, the rest of the world is froze out, you never see their help, or their money.
If you limit the 125 Liquid engine world to one brand, do you think all other brands are just going to give up and go away? OR. are they each going after another series, or create one of their own. Thats why we have what we have now.
Learn from the dirt oval world. At one time it was the largest form of karting,and it made out very well. then it went the spec route, cloans, different forms of cloans everywhere you went. LO206, Hondas, WKA even offered a Suburu class Their all spec, no support for any of them and theres so many none are really strong.

[Bob Vehring]

Greg, First let me say, Mark said in one paragraph, what I have been trying to say in many posts.
Now to try an clear up my ramblings. I was trying to reference things our family is involved with but lets look at drag racing since you brought it up, and I have done quite a bit of it.
Drag Racing was at least in the 70-80’s promoting itself as the the largest base of grassroots racers then any other form of motorsports. My guess is thats still true today. Drag racing exists and is supported by 4 Pro Classes, P/S bike, P/S car, Funny Car, and Top Fuel. Those 4 classes do fill the stands, and they do bring in the NASCAR sized sponsors.That funds the entire sport. That drives the sportsman class and series that thousands of drag racers race at.
Most of us will never be John Force but because of thos Pros, we have those races to race at.

Snowmobiles are the same thing 30,K plus spectators show up, CBS sports broadcast every race.. Pros all have NASCAR trailers, Merch trailers and groupies. Those fans come to see those stars, but all the rest of us race at the same facility right next to them. Our 8-12 Year old 120 customers race their Champ class at night under the lights as part of the Pro Program. Without the Pro show, the rest of us could never get those types of facilities to race at.

Look at Daytona, not quite what it used to be, but can’t think of anything else in our sport as big as it. WKA is the only thing on this side of the river that covers all types of karting, could any other series out there pull off a race at Daytona, I doubt it. I believe its the BIG spectacles in any sport that bring attention to it, feed it, and make it grow. We have lost Charlotte and Road America. My kids came out of the days were Daytona had 2300 entries in Dirt alone, another 1000 in Road Race, and Sprint was held up the road at 103rd st. We raced Charolette in Road Racing during the day and the Briggs and Stratton 300 at night. I can’t remember the number of racers that we brought from the local tracks here like Badger for Sprint, afew of the oval tracks and they went to Daytona. That led many down the Road Racing path because they got to try it while racing their sprint or oval karts.
We just don’t have the big EVENTS anymore, even things like Kartfest and KMI are long gone

[Bob Vehring]

I agree with TJ here, but I think the reason it doesn’t work in karting is its sold often as a “spec” engine package even tho many people have theirs blueprinted. There was a class in the 4 cy world call F200 5 brands, it stared out as stock engines, and they were not competative at all. They came up with a genaric set of rules all had to meet, CC limit, carb size,Compression,cam lift and duration that you built all engines to. Suddenly, any or all could be players
Snowmobile racing is exactly the same, both kids and adults have their top levels where all 4 brands race together. Rules keep them equal and all 4 manufacturers are players in the same race.

Take Komet and KT100. 100 cc piston port engine. Give them the same carb set port dementions, spec compression and give them a spec or open pipe. Why wouldn’t that work with a 125 engine also? It always did in sleds, MotoX quads and bikes etc, many brands all race together, always did.

Its just so sad to see whats happening to this sport

[Bob Vehring]

Your title for this post fits very well. altho its not just a new thing happening, the trend has been growing for at least the last decade.
Personally I guess I have reached “old fart” status, but thats not always a bad thing. I’ve always raced, starting with cars in the late 60’s. We started karting, first in ’83 with my wife, followed shortly by 2 kids. Both kids still do it today, mostly Road Racing. Wife and one son also race Snowmobiles in winter and have family business building small 4 stroke engines for the 120 classes. Sorry for the long intro, but theres a point. Karting is the only racing form I know of where the sport is not governed by one strong national org. Think about that, anyone can come in, start their own series, choose or limit the engines they want and run it anyhow they wish. Often of course this is controlled by a certain brand or limited to certain products I think we can all see the business reasons for something like this.
Ok big country, maybe thats not so bad, but heres what I think is missing.

First, In everything else we’ve been involved with, theres a limited set of classes or should I say engines used. There is restricted versions etc for kids but the choices are limited and they are stable. Easy enough to see the cost control of this, but theres a second part, and to me its what keeps karting from ever being a serious form of recognized racing. We have no single National Champions in anything we do. We have hundreds of them, every class, every series,every age group, every engine make, all have their own champions. I seriously doubt most of the best racers never face the rest of the champions.There is no one class where the best race.

Most other things we’ve been through offer a range of engine and class choices. Many racers never choose to go beyond the beginers or mid range level, but every race offers a National level where it has its pro class. Not everyone can simply enter these class, they are not cheap, most everything is modified, which is where the money comes from, and you have to qualify 16 – 20- 30 make the field, the rest come back next race and try to make it.

I know that sounds pretty harsh to many people, but its also why we have no big time sponsors or TV coverage, no money in our sport. Everytime someone is unhappy with something, they start a new series and everyone considers “their” series as the one that really counts, the others aren’t as good, or as tough.
Their is no one, major, Pro series in karting which is what would give us a true karting Champion.

[Bob Vehring]

Having been a member of both the 2 cy and the 4 cy forums since they started, I would sum up the differences like this.

The 4 cy guys like to fight

The 2 cy guys avoid it

Thus the entertainment value is completely different

[Bob Vehring]

Alot of different types of oval or offset chassis, most of this will depend on which you have.

Main difference is drivers weight is offset to the left, which is what you want on an oval. That can be adjusted out if you want to by re mount the seat. Most oval karts have the independent camber/caster style front ends which IMO are far superior to the pill type. The also usually have weight jacker rear cassettes which makes changing cross simple by simply turning one bolt while your sitting on the scales. Euro designs usually involve having to loosen the cassette then trying to move the axle up or down in its mounting brackets, or, changing washers in front.

As for ” will they work” in sprint. I have see some work very well, but one very important thing to remember here, they are made to turn left, or go straight. They are not made to turn right.

My kids have raced alot of sprint tracks over the last 25 years. On a sprint track, you can never be set up perfectly for every turn because there so different. You decide which are the most important, often leading onto, or at the end of a long straight. Then you look to which are least important, often a series or S type turn where you can’t be set up perfectly for both lefts and rights or turns where its very hard for someone to pass you even if your set up gives something up in that situation. Once you sort that out, you know if its predominately a left hand turn track of a right.

We have always had both Sprint karts, and oval karts, there are times where if the most important turns are lefts and the rights are either few, or in a place where you not likely to get passed offset karts can definitely win. I think you don’t hear of it much because few people own both so never try it. In the 4 cy world where we also have oval tracks around us and some people do both, you do see it happen occasionally and on some tracks it works well. If its a right hand based track, don’t even bother.

Think about the logic here, A oval kart is designed totally to be fast in left hand turns, a sprint kart can’t come close to it, so if your track layout supports it, it my work very well, or, not at all

[Bob Vehring]

As I read this, I have to ask Ted, is your goal to get new people racing or grow what you already have?

Its easy to line up 50 tires in your shop and duro them, its a bit different out at the track. Temp is a factor, as is chemicals weather its the guy who wd’s his pipe to much, the guy that has a exhaust that dumps on the rear tire, or the guy that likes to play with all the various preps available. Not insurmountable problems, but possible headaches, especially for the guy teching.

Badger for most of its history had all classes accept Shifter and TaG on hard tires. In our case Bridgestone YDS but Mike or just about anyone has a line of them. About 4 years ago the 2 cy side of our club voted to go to Stickier tires, YHC’s here. That is a big factor in having the 4 cy side grow here. One set of tires will give you 2 seasons of use. Most do lightly prep here, but not on Sun (raceday) and tires are painted in first practice session.

 

I do all the shows for Badger, and we do alot, for a new guy, or most of them, cost is everything. I have nothing against the Euro style of karting, Badger has very strong 2 cy classes, but its easy 2x or 3x the cost of 4 stroke racing. Lo 206, Animal, cloan all will go a couple years with out a rebuild given good oil, a brand new Coyote chassis is $2495 and the tires last forever. Because we have always had good Animal classes, theres no shortage of used stuff around here. Right now complete Animal packages, $1195 on Badgers Classifieds.

I always get asked how Badger keeps its numbers up while other tracks around here struggle, give them a cheap place to get started. If they want to end up in TaG, they will, but most will not start there.

[Bob Vehring]

“Greg, karting isn’t big enough to support so many interests. Are you arguing that karting is heading in the right direction?”

I’m not Greg, but I think that is the problem. I got to know Greg a decade or more ago when we all Did WKA NRRS Yes there were other series for Road Race most regional, but when you won a class in NRRS, you were the champion, period.

Today I don’t think that exists anymore. Just picking a class and series, you may have won TaG in Man Cup, but you didn’t win in Rt66, or USPKS, or MASS, or Rotax, or Fl.Winter tour or how many more are there because I don’t know.

My question is, what series do all the very best race in so you can all race against each other?

[Bob Vehring]

Money, they hope you enter more classes, the shops hope you will buy a different engine/kart for the extra class, they in turn sponsor the classes.

Same deal in Road Racing, for the better part of a decade, Animals were either the first or second largest class. One set of engine rules, 3 weight classes, light, med, heavy. Run twice either day. That now is up to 12, 4 cy classes, different engines, different rules. Last year at Daytona, they had 15 Animals, it used to be we would have between 30-40 Animals at each race. We raced Daytona every year since ’94, do we go anymore to race against 15 others, not a chance.
Now a question, is WKA still a member owned org.?

[Bob Vehring]

Rumors have been flying around enough, wish someone would start talking.

 

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