[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

You still need to do some maintenance at home and at the track.  Get a rolling stand.  When you wheel the kart through the pits on hot tires, they will pick up EVERYTHING!!

You do not NEED a gauge, but they do come in very handy.  Especially the Mychron 5.  Very user friendly with GPS.  Get the cheapest one they have, which will be about 500 I think.  Let Margay install it and be done with it.  But really for you first couple races, you don’t need one.  The folks at the track running the same class will help you out.  Ask what fuel the CIK 206’s are running when you get there.  Ask the racers.  Get what they say.

Feel free to ask us questions.  Get some Briggs 4T oil, about 3 or 4 quarts.  Change oil each day.  Oil is cheap.  I get mine from Faster Motors, Jim Franz.  Knows his 206 stuff.  Check Fastermotors web site.

Clark.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

I just checked the Margay pre owned Ignites.  They have one left with one race on it.  Likely a Dayton kart, for 3495.

Just sayen’

Clark.

 

‘

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Welcome Anthony.

My Son and I currently race the CIK 206 Sprint class which you’re interested in.  Last season I ran a 2007 TopKart Flash, which is actually a shifter chassis.  We ran it in Stock Leopard for a number of years with good success, also with the 4 wheel brakes.  I removed the front brakes and assorted stuff, narrowed the rear to 51.5″ and left the front in neutral width and caster/camber.  It worked great!

However, my Son bought a one race old Margay Ignite directly from Margay.  On the track in the actual races, there was little to tell them apart.  But driving them back to back, we both felt the Ignite to be a little freer, and likely a tic quicker alone on the track but not much. \

I have since sold the TopKart ready to run to the WKC president.  SOOO, I also bought a one race old Margay Ignite with Mychron 5 gauge for 3900 plus shipping.  I have not run it yet, but I assume it will be just like my Sons.

The upside of the Margays is.  New or used, they will set it up the way you want.  For instance, one race old karts already have the engine broken in, valve lash and carb float set.  So you don’t have to mess with that.  They will also put whatever seat, body work, tires and gear you want.

So if you go Margay, look at their website for the used stuff.  Usually about 3500 without gauge.  For road racing– Bridgestone YLC tires, 450 front, 710 rear.  They will have some use on them, but that’s fine.  Hilliard clutch with a 21 tooth driver, and a 60 tooth axles gear.  That will get you in the ballpark almost anywhere.  Get the Odenthal (sp) mount for an extra $70 or so (trust me they are worth the money).  Ask what seat they suggest for your size and get it with room for a rib protector (they’ll have a good idea what size you need).  Tell them where to ship it, a business is best, and give them your cc number.  It will be along in a week or so all ready for Roebling.

If you need further help the folks on this forum can’t be beat.  Ask a lot of questions.  And really, just about any older Tag kart will work fine, but for the Margay it’s ready to go and works well.

FYI, we won’t be going to Roebling, but we will be at Summit Point, Shenandoah on April 21 and 22.  So far the Woodbridge Kart Club have 6 confirmed CIK 206’s, 2 Ignites on the way from Margay for two others, and another just ordered an engine for his wife for an old CRG.  Looking to be a great class.  Easy to drive, easy to maintain, very little work at the track, and they draft like crazy.  You will have a hoot.

That’s it..sorry for the grammar and spelling, I’m being called to help with dinner!!!

Clark Gaynor Sr.

WKC Board Member.

WKA NRRC Member.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Good stuff Freddy!  Here’s one from Summit Point Main, Stock Leopard (currently IAME Sprint).  Black kart, orange helmet is my kid, Clark Jr for what it’s worth.

 

 

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

You can also Youtube Summit Point Stock Leopard and or Summit Point Stock Honda and get a feel for road racing those classes.  Same applies to Sandy Hook Tag.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

OK Richard, you seem to live in the DC, Maryland, Northern Virginia area.  There are three tracks where you can go, look around, ask questions and maybe decide what direction you’d like to go.

Nicholson Speedway, Chestertown, Md.  They race a few times a month, small sprint track, I haven’t been there in years, but will likely be mainly 4 cycle (Briggs), some Yamaha’s and maybe a few Tags.  They have a website.

Sandy Hook Speedway, Street, Md.  Again, race a few times per month.  Small sprint track, biggest classes are Tag classes.  Tag and Tag for older folks.  Some 4 cycles, usually Jr and Sr 206 stuff.  Website.

Woodbridge Kart Club, WKA road racing at Summit Point Main, SP Shenandoah and VIR.  I know you don’t like racing karts on sports car tracks, but it’s a good place to see a lot of Tags and shifters.  Along with CIK 206’s, Animal Sprints, and a bunch of laydown classes.  We also have a website, with our schedule and contact info.

Also other sprint tracks at NJMP, Englishtown, and OVKA.

One more thing to keep in mind, unless you run SKUSA we don’t really care what the West coast, Texas, or even much of the mid West does.  I have no intention of dragging all my go-kart stuff all the way to Laguna from here in Pottstown, Pa.  Where you live, get more educated on what WKA does, or your local sprint track.

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

One more and last comment by me on the subject.  You are so incredibly uninformed it’s verging on the ridiculous.

Short track engines run WAY more RPMs the long track engines.

If you don’t race for fun, you will NEVER be good at it.

That’s all,

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

I know we at the Woodbridge Kart Club do all we can to make our spectators have a great experience.  BOTH OF THEM;) :> :]

Ya’, we even invest money in a 30 second ad which runs prior to our events on Comcast in the DC, Northern Virginia area.  We have NEVER had anyone show up at one of our events which said they were there because of the ad.

Richard, you are enthusiastic, but you REALLY need to go to a true kart race so you can actually see what’s going on.

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

FYI, Honda makes a run of 1999 and 2001 “parts” only when required by us folks in the US.  At SOME point that flow will stop.  We, collectively don’t know when.  It’s nearly 20 years old, they don’t make it anymore, or put it in anything.  I assume Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc. are all in the same boat..it’s all 4 strokes.  Remember 2 cycles keep karting costs in check.  They are extremely simple things.  Of course you have the Briggs Animal/LO206, but that’s another whole story all together.  I can bring you up to date on those too at Summit.  We have two of them.

The current batch of KZ motors seem like the future, and they are purpose built just for karts.  A little pricey, but ever nice motors.  There is also talk of the new 175 cc IAME motor starting here in the US.  Likely more HP due to the increase in cc’s with less mods.  Kind of like a big block X30 with a gear box.  It would make a really great reliable ride.

Bike manufacturers don’t care about karts.  We run 2 strokes, they build 4 strokes.  There is no incentive at all for them to get involved.  They likely sell more 250cc 4 stroke dirt bikes in a few days, then all the 99 CR125 kit motors in a few years.  Just sayen’.

I think you mentioned the Tag package being about 3000, they’re actually closer to 4000.

Car stuff.  My Son ran the Skip Barber Formula Dodge Eastern Series back in 97.  We budgeted 3K per three day event, with a 8 event season.  Run the numbers..that was a killer.  Sold all our kart stuff and a home equity loan.  Plus the three day competition school and a lapping day required prior to running the series.  Well, I just did a real quick check, ready..  double that today!!  For us, that was a once in a life time experience for our whole family.

Anyway, I suspect you’d like to get involved in kart racing at some level.  I would strongly suggest you attend a few events with the Woodbridge Kart Club, the Sandy Hook Kart track in Street Maryland, and Nicholson Kart Club in Chestertown Maryland.   I think a bunch of your questions will be answered.  And you’ll get to see what is actually going on and why.

We all would like karting to be a big deal, but it’s just not.  We race go-karts.  I like to ask, how much do you know about Formula ford, how about quarter midgets, or full size midgets for that matter?  Or dirt modifieds, late models?  How about Chump cars, Show Room Stock classes?  Hill climbs, solo one, alcohol drag cars, etc, etc.  Everybody wants to get the big sponsor for their series.  Everybody wants to be on TV.  But the truth is, we race go-karts.  They’re great, and we all have a blast doing it.  And really, that’s all that matters.  You spend as much as you can afford and no more.

Have fun,

Clark Sr…back to PS4, Gran Turismo Sport.  Got other kart racers waiting for me.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Richard, I’m not sure which tread you are referring to at times.  I know you started one on the Tag forum, but didn’t seem to like any of the answers we offered.  And that’s fine.

As for the Stock Honda’s.  They are 1999 CR125’s which allow either the 99 or 2001 cylinders and heads.  They also have a 1996, I think, gearbox in them because they’re 6 speeds and not 5’s like the 99’s.  They are allowed one of two Keihn carbs, and one choice of pipe as I recall.  They are also 2 cycles!

To the best of my knowledge and I don’t pretend to know much about motocross, but I don’t think many bike manufacturer make 2 strokes anymore.  If you have ever looked inside the head of a current Yamaha or Honda 250 (or whatever cc they are) 4 stroke, you would be impressed!  I was!  They are works of art…and so is the cost.  The current CR head is less the $200, I can’t even image what a 4 stroke head would cost.  1500-2000?  And as you may know, racing engines break stuff.  If you want to end shifter racing at a reasonable price, go 4 stroke.  That will kill it!

$1600 Honda kit.  That is a pick kit from a Honda distributor.  NO TWO PARTS ARE PUT TOGETHER!!!  They come in a crate of bags of parts.  I’ve seen ours at the engine builders when they arrived back 2001.  If you don’t know what you’re doing, assembling one is an intimidating task.  They don’t come with power valve plugs, carb, pipe, engine mount, j arm, airbox/filter, fuel delivery system for the carb, or a set of jets.  Yep, $5500-6000 isn’t really all that bad considering you get EVERYTHING you need…assembled.

I know you disagree with racing karts on a sports car track, but you mentioned Summit Point.  The Woodbridge Kart Club will be holding our first event this season on the Shenandoah Circuit on April 21st and 22nd.  I invite you to stop by, buy a pit pass, and look me up.  I’ll give you the cooks tour of what current kart racing is all about.  Anything from the LO206, and Tags, to Stock Honda’s, and maybe even a 250 Superkart, if any show up.

Have a good day folks,

Clark Gaynor Sr.

WKA NRRC Member.

WKC Board Member.

 

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Anthony, first you need to decide what type of kart racing interests you.  Sprint (classic go kart racing on small go kart road courses), dirt oval (generally small dirt ovals specifically designed for karts) or road racing (karts racing on sports car tracks, eg: Daytona, Summit Point, VIR, Mid Ohio, etc).

The best suggestion, if you’re not sure, is to visit each type of kart race and see what’s appealing.  My guess is it might be sprints.

Find the track which you will/might race at and go see a few events.  Ask a LOT of questions, see what classes are popular, what is your budget, how mechanical are you, the shops which support those events, what engine/chassis do they support, etc, etc.

Nearly anyone without racing or karting experience, I would recommend the Briggs LO206 classes.  Extremely low maintenance, inexpensive buy in, no adjustments to the engines allowed.  They are not fast, but they allow you to spend your time on driving and chassis tuning, as opposed to messing with an expensive engine package and high dollar rebuild costs.  If wherever you decide to race, and if LO206 is popular there, I’d head in that direction.  For what it’s worth, Margay Karts (check their website), offers a model called the Ignite, which come ready to race for under $4000 brand new.  Used, good ones can be had for less then $2500.

No matter what you decide—–do NOT rush into it!!  Take your time, learn as much as you can, talk to as many folks as you can, be honest on your budget and time.  Unless you know EXACTLY what you want, stay off of eBay!

Have fun in your new sport.  You and your Dad will have a hoot!!

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Currently in WKA road racing in the TAG Heavy class, there are (11) eleven legal engines.  Ready?  Cheetah SQ 125; Easykart IAME & BMB; Motori Seven; Stock Parilla Leopard; Ported Parilla Leopard; Parilla X30; PRD Fire Ball; Rotax FR125; Sonik TX; Sonik VX; and the Vortex Rok TT.  There is an ATTEMPT to make them somewhat equal using various minimum weights.  It does NOT work!!

A number of these engines I have never seen.  Some aren’t made anymore.  And some I can’t imagine where you could get one or parts for them.

Hands down the most popular engines in the class are the X30’s, Leopards, maybe a couple PRD’s and maybe a couple Rotax’s.  It seems like a second class for the IAME Sprint folks who want to run more.

Currently at Daytona and I know with the WKC, the IAME Sprint class is the biggest by a margin.  IAME Sprint is for MY03 and MY09 Leopards; and the X30’s, all IAME products.

I’m sure if you searched hard enough, you could find an old Easykart motor for a couple hundred bucks. But it would be so far off, why would you bother?  Or a Sonik which isn’t made anymore?

I hear what you’re saying, but if you want to be competitive, there are only a couple choices in any series.  And in most series, it’s a single engine.  And those ARE the most popular classes.

Have a good one,

Clark Gaynor Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Living a full life doing stuff you love is a pretty good deal.  Actually it’s what we all hope for.

Clark.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

There’s a few Bob.  Obviously “ekarting” is pretty good for the two stroke world and the larger National scene.  If you’r into 4 cycle racing “Bob’s 4 cycle forum” is pretty hard to beat.  Very active, with many very knowledgeable folks answering questions.  Dirt, sprint, road racing, champ karts, engines, etc, etc.   “Kart Pulse” has some good stuff.  “Vroom” is good for International news, if that’s your interest.  And if you happen to be into LO206 racing and have questions, “Briggs Racing” is very hard to beat.  The actual Briggs folks comment routinely as well as some of the experts from Bob’s 4 cycle forum.

Lots of info out there, with a lot of very knowledgeable folks involved.

Have fun,

Clark Gaynor Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

I suppose I should have replied sooner.  Bob, we understand the Ignite race at Daytona is a one time deal with WKA.  My point was why was the CIK 206 class dropped from the event?  As I stated before, I have absolutely no problem with an Ignite race at Daytona or anywhere else.  I’m just a little confused why CIK 206 was dropped from ManCup.  A year ago as I recall, CIK 206 was a class in Gold Cup, ManCup and road racing.  And if you ran Bridgestone YLC’s, you would only have to change the gear for the different series/tracks.  That’s pretty neat.  Now, if you have a CIK 206 (or any 206 for that matter) there is no WKA series to run it in but road racing.  Just seems odd to me.  And maybe Gold Cup will come back and maybe it don’t.

Again, sorry for taking this thread WAY off track.

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Chris, just curious, were there many/any electric racing karts/cars at the show?  It seems pretty obvious that in the not too distant future that will be the direction motorsports will be headed.  Example Formula E.

Interesting stuff..thanks,

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

I wouldn’t hurt to join WKA and get your road race endorsement prior to going.  At the same time, contact WKA and get the current 2018 Tech Manual and go over everything pertaining to the two classes Bob mentioned.

Make sure you have all the pre race safety tech items covered before you go.  E.G. full width rear bumper, brake tether, every thing cotter pinned, safety wired, helmet Snell 2010 or newer, etc.

And also as Bob says..have fun!

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Greg, WKA appears to have eliminated the CIK 206 class, and added the Ignite race.  There is no CIK 206 in the Mancup lineup for 2018.  Goldcup seems to be on hold, so as of right now the only CIK 206 Sprint class in WKA currently is in the road race series.  Seems really odd to me.

I was running Stock Leopard (currently IAME Sprint) in WKA/WKC road races up until about 3 years ago.  I figured getting on my head at 90+ wouldn’t do me any good, so I figured I slow down at little…like 71 MPH.  Still a bunch of fun, and it gives me a lot more time to work on my Son’s IAME Sprint.  The CIK 206’s are SOOOO easy, it’s almost criminal!

Take care,

Clark.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

I believe Ray is referring to the Margay Ignite only class.  I appreciate what Margay is doing and also support  having a spec chassis/engine/tire combo like that..but!  In addition, I feel, there should also be a CIK LO206 class with any CIK style chassis and body work allowed, with the normal Bridgestone YLC spec tire for the series.  Just my opinion of course.

I also wonder why there was a CIK LO206 class in Mancup in the 2017 season, but it disappeared in 2018!!  I’m not sure why, unless the ultimate goal is to make the WKA Mancup a IAME series only?

I don’t want to throw this thread in a different direction, but it does appear this ultra spec, super cheap, low maintenance type of racing may keep karting alive through some touch times.

As a disclaimer…I have a Margay Ignite and so does my Son.  I’ve been racing karts since 1963, and I/we have run everything from an old Mac 9 on a Dart A-Bone thru a 250 Anderson CR250 super kart.  I’ll be 70 in a few months, and the only reason I’m still road racing is because of the CIK 206 Sprint class WKA started this season in the road race series.

Again, sorry for going off track, but just my thoughts with my second cup of coffee on a Friday morning.  Have a great weekend folks.

Clark Gaynor Sr.

 

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Sure is!  The WKC board has it’s all day meeting at Summit Point on November 18th.  They’ve invited one of us to bring a kart along and turn a couple laps on the new surface.  We’re very much looking forward to seeing how it turned out.

Clark.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

I really don’t know.  I would imagine KART and WKA together will make the call on that one.

Sorry I couldn’t be more help.

Clark Sr.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

We live in Southeast Pa, so it gets pretty cold here too.  We drain the fuel; drain the water..refill with antifreeze…drain again; bleed the brakes with fresh fluid; Tri Flow the cylinder and bottom end bearings; remove the batteries from the gauge and kart (Tag); rebuild the carb; wipe everything with WD40, Triflow, and/or PB Blaster (? pipes, axles, etc).  Then in the trailer they go without heat.  New tires, electric starters, stop watches, distilled water, kart batteries, weather station, etc go in the heated basement.

We’ve been doing it that way since about 1990 with no ill effects to anything.

Clark Sr.

 

 

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

The problem is Bob, as I recall, this event was a pretty late entry for this calendar year.  So it dropped on top of a WKC event at Summit Point, WV and the KART Nationals.  And as most on here involved with event scheduling know, by this time of year most org’s like WKA, WKC, KART, etc, are finalizing their schedules for 2018.  And to make it worse, most organizations and clubs have little say on what dates are offered and where.

For instance, the WKA has nearly completed it’s 2018 road race schedule, and the WKC is in the very final stages as well.  I know there were WKC members that would have liked to try Pittsburgh, but we already had our event on the books since late 2016!!!  And our members tend to be very strong supporters of the WKC and the WKA.

Let’s hope for the best for the 2018 Pittsburgh event.  But they also must be aware of what others have already scheduled.

Take care,

Clark Gaynor Sr.

WKC Board Member.

WKA, NRRC Member

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

First, both of our 206’s idle high when we first start them.  But after a minute or so, they settle down and are fine.  I don’t know why, nor do I care.  I’m only concerned how they run on the track and hot.  My kart doesn’t like to idle at all, and I’m OK with that too.  Our ultra high tech automobiles don’t always behave properly when they’re first started.  Why would you expect a very inexpensive, low tech, industrial, rototiller motor to do better?

The rubber boot thing is a none issue to the best of my knowledge.  It simply holds the outer throttle cable in the top of the carb.  We’ve run engines with and without them and I never gave it much thought.

William, just relax and enjoy.

Clark.

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Don’t over think it.  Service your clutch, eg: remove, disassemble, clean/lub, check for damage..reinstall.  It could be clutch chatter.  Make sure the chain is properly adjusted.  If it’s too loose, it might be jumping teeth.  206’s have no HP, so I suspect you’ll find the problem pretty easily.

Let us know what you find,

Clark Sr.

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