[Jim Derrig]

Elise,

One thing Tony didn’t mention, and it’s a serious consideration, is the amount of mechanical/maintenance effort that can go into a kart (even without battle damage).  On that basis alone, I’d tend to stay away from a 2-stroke engine, at least for now, as they are more finicky and maintenance-hungry than the LO206.  Learning how to tune 2-strokes for race day is a fine art and a steep learning curve.

Also, changing seats can be a big pain in the rear.  60 pounds is a huge weight difference, so the mounting points will be very different.  There probably will be a lot of pushing/forcing/grunting involved.  You’ll be swapping out seat struts in addition to using the kart’s built-in mounting points, so you could be looking at as many as 12 different bolts, several of which might not be very easy to access.

My concern is that once you add swapping seats to all of the regular maintenance that can go with a kart, you’ll become discouraged as you’ll be spending too much time turning wrenches relative to the amount of time on the track.

 

 

[Jim Derrig]

Since the “set up” is all relative, what difference does it make?  If you’re fast at 5mm of toe on the stand, then you’re fast.  What difference does it make that this translates into, say, 6mm toe once you sit in the thing?  All of the numerical reference points ultimately are arbitrary anyway–we could make a millimeter a different base length, define a circle as containing 320 degrees instead of 360, etc.

I realize that “preload” is important when you’re trying to meet a factory spec, say for camber adjustment on a passenger car, when the spec assumes a loaded condition.  But we’re not trying to create a common reference point here–you just need to know the conditions that the “fast” adjustment points were set at, and then replicate them.

[Jim Derrig]

This is very typical and not a concern.

[Jim Derrig]

To answer your question to me, not really except to the extent that many of those bells and whistles make it easier to drive and reduce maintenance, e.g., self-adjusting brakes.  Very few 4-strokers buy new like that; plenty of old gear out there that is competitive but you just have to be prepared to fix it and the learning curve is a bit steep, even if you have mechanical experience in other areas.  I rebuilt a BMW V-12 on my own and a simple little 2-stroke kart motor still had me guessing for the first year.

[Jim Derrig]

Might be a bit pricy, but it’s got almost all the bells and whistles you’d find on a full-blown TaG or shifter kart:

http://www.fastech-racing.com/italkart-elite-w-lo-206-engine.html

 

 

 

[Jim Derrig]

4000 rpm is high.  My personal observation is that clutch engagement speed is around 2000 with the more recent clutches, but I recall having engagement as high as 3000 rpm on leopard clutches several years ago.  It might be that your clutch is worn.  If so you want to replace it before failure, as the failures can be rather spectacular and damaging.

As for idle, usually that it related to the low speed screw being set too rich on the carb. Be aware, however, that a lean low speed setting for a smooth idle often isn’t the setting you want for actually driving the thing.

[Jim Derrig]

Only works with a shifter because it can be put in gear thus creating a direct mechanical path between the tire and the crankshaft, even at zero rpm.  You need an external starter for a Leopard, as the starter fits on a nut that is affixed to the crankshaft.

Mark, you say “no spark.”  Do you mean that literally?  You should be able to remove the plug, attach it to the plug wire, ground the end of the plug to the motor (e.g., hold it on the motor with a rubber handled pliers) and then crank the motor.  Since there is no compression with the plug out, the motor should spin easily even if the starter is weak.  You should see a spark jumping from the electrode to ground.  If not, the starter is not your most immediate problem.  If there is a spark, then perhaps the motor just isn’t spinning fast enough to start when cold.  Are you choking it by putting your hand over the air box intakes?

 

 

[Jim Derrig]

 

http://www.italianmotorsusa.com/collections/clutch-parts-misc/products/aftermarket-tag-starter

 

[Jim Derrig]

David,

I looked at your craigslist link.  That kart is an out-of-date piece of junk that hasn’t been legal to race for about 20 years.

Which is a good description of 90% of what you see on craigslist.

I strongly recommend that you purchase something through a kart shop or a kart from a CURRENT participant in a local racing series who has driven the kart RECENTLY in a race, so you know it can pass tech inspection.

And remember this adage:  The cheapest thing about racing is buying the car.

 

[Jim Derrig]

Here is what I do; somebody will probably say it’s all wrong.

Get a can (not spray can) of WD-40.  Remove the spark plug and ground the lead wire.  Remove the fuel line at the carb end and hook on a short line with a funnel at the other end.  Pour in a couple ounces of WD-40.  Crank the motor until enough WD-40 has pumped through to clear the carb of gas (keep fluid in the line and don’t pump air)

The benefit of this method is the gas is completely removed and there are no residuals to turn gummy, which wouldn’t be the case if you just drained the carb.

Obviously, this only works if you have a “pumper” carb like on a Leopard.  I suppose a variation could be used for carbs with external fuel pumps.

[Jim Derrig]

I’m nowhere near Denver, but I’ve showed up at “rotax only” races in other states with a leopard and been allowed to race with the understanding I’m automatically DQ’d as far as points go.  Since I was there for the racing and not for the plastic trophy, that was fine with me.  Of course, I called ahead and cleared it with the race organizer ahead of time.

[Jim Derrig]

I”d just go with the basic skm/intrepid/italkart product line.  Pretty sure all 3 are from the same manufacturing plant, with the only difference being the name plate.  Italian Motors has good selection and free shipping.  Fastech about the same with lower price but you pay for shipping.

http://www.italianmotorsusa.com/collections/axles-50mm

[Jim Derrig]

Crap.  Re-read your first post and realized you said “stator box” and not “stator.”

It’s always the stator.  That should have been your first move.

[Jim Derrig]

Also possible for the crank trigger (Sean says “rotor”) to slip off the crank key, throwing off the timing.

[Jim Derrig]

1.  There is very little practical difference between the two Leopards.  Performance is identical.  The upgrades in the 2009 are of debatable value.

2.  Couldn’t tell you.  Rotax made a bunch of updates this year and a major national series (SKUSA) decided to spec the IAME X30 at its TaG motor, so we’re seeing migration.  Probably not very relevant to your situation, except that older Rotax motors and all Leopards might be available for less money than before (thumbs up from your point of view).

3.  Aesthetics only.

I’ll add the observation that you should prefer to find a kart that has been set up for your particular track, as it will save you some major headaches.  I started with a road racing kart and took it to a tight sprint track.  All the money I “saved” was gone because of the changes I had to make, plus I spent months trying to sort it out, all from a position of ignorance.

 

[Jim Derrig]

The X125t is a noticeably stronger, smoother motor, as strong or stronger than the Rotax in the midrange and matching the X30 in top end, so it’s the best of both worlds.    I’ve found myself overtaking Rotax’s on parts of the track where they used to just drive away from me, while still enjoying that IAME-like extra top end.

I only have one race under my belt on the X125t, so I’m still learning to tune it.  My motor seemed to have a overly-drastic (and very unforgiving) power drop when off pipe, but I suspect that was partly due to a jetting issue, my unfamiliarity with the motor, and (admittedly) my not exactly being a national-caliber driver (I’ve got a new chassis and I’m learning that at the same time).   So the X30 might have a low-rpm advantage over the X125t like it does over the Rotax, but I can’t be sure at this point.

I like the simplified ignition system on the X125t, but there’s a trade off as it doesn’t charge the battery like the IAME selectra system does.  On the other hand, the motor seems to start very easily so I had surprisingly little battery drain over the course of the day and charging wasn’t an issue.  I still bought a trickle charger for overnight recharges though, which I never had to worry about when running IAME motors.

So I’ve got a lot to learn but I’m not regretting my purchase.  If the X125t is legal in your series it’s the clear choice in my book, especially since Italian Motors is running a trade-in program.

Update March 1, 2015:  After some practice and another race I’ve confirmed that the power drop I mentioned earlier is at least partly due to learning to jet the motor correctly.  It does not pull as smoothly from low rpm as an IAME, but the Leopard driver’s trick of the pole sitter using a very slow formation pace (which puts the Rotax rpm underneath the power valve) does not work when used against the X125, or at least not much, so the power band is not falling off a cliff, as I had feared in my prior post.

[Jim Derrig]

But at the top levels, it’s surprising how many drivers are loyal to (and dependent on) the shops.  If the shop says we’re not going here and we’re going there instead, their customers often follow suit

I don’t think we’re getting the point.  My point is that a series started for the purpose of preserving profit margins is being started for a purpose that ultimately does not factor into the decisions of the customer.

I’m loyal to Italian Motors.  I have no idea what their profit margin is or where they make it or even if they make it.  I’m loyal because of the customer service, products, etc.

If my loyalty translates into marketing power, so be it (I think the replies above have confused market power with the point I’m making)  But if shops start a new series purely to preserve profit margins, rather than to provide a better product to the karter (who ultimately is the one with the money), that is not a good recipe for long-term success, as that objective does not form a basis for the karter’s decisions.

Hate to trudge out this over-used analogy, but CART was started for the teams not the fans and look how that turned out.   The objective was all wrong  The teams had loyal fans and corresponding market power and that worked for a while, but ultimately the fans went away.

If the new series provides a better product to the customer, it will thrive.  But I’m leery of any product in any industry that is introduced not because it is a better product for the ultimate purchaser, but because it is a better product for the product vendor.

P.S.  Sorry to get my panties in a bunch over this, but my degree is in economics so I tend to get passionate when my beloved theories/perspectives are implicated.  Peace.

 

 

 

[Jim Derrig]

Can’t help but notice that there is a Rotax versus IAME undercurrent here.  This appears to be Rotax’s salvo back at IAME’s taking over of the Supernat, and provides an additional incentive for current Rotax drivers to stay with the program and not switch to an X-30.

“feel they have taken away every revenue stream possible from dealers and importers”

Interesting but economically irrelevant.  The money ultimately comes from the final product purchaser, the karter.  The karter does not care how the $200 for the tires he just purchased is divided up behind the scenes.  Starting a new series as a means to protect profit margins for middlemen only leads to market dilution, as the series’ rational is based on an economically irrelevant fact.  The real question is whether the series will increase participation enough to justify its existence, i.e., does it serve the end-user better than the existing service provider?

[Jim Derrig]

As a newbie, you’re probably not going to be racing for P1.  It’s more important to show up with an engine that the local folks know about and have parts for, so you can get the help/advice you are going to need.  The (relatively) small differences between different TaG motors will not be the main source of any lack of speed relative to the front runners.  It will be skill and experience with basic things like threshold braking, correctly apexing, and just generally developing that mental database of how a kart is supposed to “feel” going through a given corner.

At 220lbs you are at a disadvantage, but I’ve seen 220 lb guys beat 165lb guys just with superior driving skill.  Once you’re at the pointy end of the stick in terms of that skill, then you can worry  about whether a Rotax EVO or an X125 is the better engine for you.

That said, at 220 lbs you’re probably not going find yourself on the podium at a national championship event.  I tell my other (larger) buds:  “Remember those guys in high school we used to push around on the football field and take to the hoop in basketball?  This sport is their revenge.”  All we can to is accept our fate, which is to have a bucket load of fun but no big trophies.

[Jim Derrig]

Most Euro kart frames will accept a lot of part from Rigetti Ridolfi (sp), SKM and Wildcart.  Basically, there are a lot more trade names out there than actual kart manufacturers, and many of the parts are defacto standardized, or have common bolt spacing that allow one “brand” to be substituted for another.  So, items like master cylinders, brake rotors, hubs, steering columns and so on are pretty easy to find even if the frame manufacturer (like Hasse) isn’t selling them under its nameplate.

HOWEVER, there are enough differences that if you don’t know what was on the kart originally, you will have a very difficult time figuring out which particular aftermarket part actually fits your exact kart.  You’ll continually be presented with 2-4 options and no good idea as to which is correct until you actually grab the parts and see what fits.  I don’t envy you and I think you’re looking at a lot of frustration.

Finally, these are full competition karts that are not remotely suitable for “bashing around in your back yard,” unless you are particularly fond of broken ribs, injured spines and that sort of thing.  At least, I hope you are not planning on putting anything over about 6hp on this thing if you ever get it running.

 

[Jim Derrig]

The K9Es is a “tag shifter,” which basically means it is a shifter motor with electric start.  It is not particularly competitive versus other shifter motors and, since it has a 6-speed tranny, is not legal for straight TaG.   TM put it on the market about 7 years ago and it never really took off.

Confusing, I know.

 

[Jim Derrig]

Italian Motors is the X125 (Maxter) importer and, right now, the only seller as it is brand spanking new on the North American market.  So the link I gave you is how you buy it.  You can call them with questions–they’re pretty easy to talk to.

BTW, note that the price does not include an engine mount.  Not sure if the mounts for other TaG motors work, as I bought a new kart at the same time and the mount came as part of the overall package.

Don’t think TM makes a TaG package that is imported to North America.

[Jim Derrig]

Over the last 10 years I have tracked junior drivers in the successful KRA program at NCMP and here’s what I’ve seen. Starting with a field of kid karters (say 15 entries), only a modest percentage move up to the Jr. Sportsman (cadet?) level, from there the Jr. Sportsman drivers only seem to have well less than 30-35% move up to the Jr. Class. Then the Juniors move less than half to senior classes. End result over a 10 year period you may see 10-15% of the original group of kid karters spend any time in the senior divisions. 

This is because we largely follow the European karting ladder, and this is exactly how the ladder is supposed to work, as the final rung is Lewis Hamilton (only room for one driver).

Most absolutely nutso fact about karting:  A 13-year-old can show up and jump into a Junior TaG kart or Jr. shifter that is fully capably of beating a senior-level kart, i.e., the junior kart is stupid fast.  But that same 13-year-old can’t run an L206 because the 4-stroke classes have a 16-and-over age limit.  This has been true at most of the kart tracks I’ve been to.  The net result is if you are a parent on the level of the little league baseball crazies who are convinced that little Kenny is going to be a professional race driver, the opportunities abound, while if you’re a parent who just wants to have fun with a kid who is not at that talent level, the opportunities are much fewer.  I have no idea why this has so consistently been the case.

It also means that karting is competing with MX for the talented kids with parents willing to allow their kids to face that kind of risk level.  Net result:  Not many kids.

 

 

[Jim Derrig]

“That umbrella doesn’t need to pick rules and classes etc. but it sure would be nice if we had a national licensing system and maybe some coordination among events from various organizations on the race schedule to avoid serious conflicts.”

You guys just crack me up.

Why the heck should a local track owner care if somebody has a “license”?  Who is going to make the owner turn away an unlicensed paying customer?  A “license” might make sense if you have a national or international level race and want to keep  obvious bumblers off the entry list but it isn’t going to grow anything at a local level:  If anything it is a barrier to entry.  Licensing is for the elite.

As for the number of classes, we have a large humber of classes because paying customers show up with a wide variety of karts and the track owners aren’t going to tell them to leave.  I started out with a 10-year-old shifter with a mod honda.  Out of date and the only one on the track.  I got it cheap.  Excluding karts like that with standard, nation-wide specs will not encourage people to enter karting.  It will just make it more expensive to enter.

Hell, SKUSA is speccing Hondas and X30’s and the whining and wailing can be heard from coast-to-coast.  Again, its okay if you are running an elite series and want to keep costs down for those who would actually show up with 3 different engines and select which one works best at track “X”, but local level? Nope.

A national body can issue all of the specs and rules it wants, but in the absence of some ability to enforce the rules, it’s just so much spinning of wheels.

 

[Jim Derrig]

You mean “maxter” right?  Darned spell check.

Because I race at Italian Motors corporate track (SIMA), several of us have been beta testers.  As a piece of hardware it may be the best thing out there, and the reliability in testing has been outstanding (it’s a detuned and de-stressed KF4 motor).  Very strong: We’ll be racing it regionally this year and we’re starting out with a 25 pound weight penalty versus the Leopard and 10 versus the X-30 and Rotax EVO.  Personally, I don’t think these weights will stick, but it shows how much power the motor has.

The real question is how much market traction it will get since the big-time national series (read Rotax and SKUSA) will never allow it.

[Author]

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