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Paul Hutt
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 388
Location: United States, Washington, Olympia
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 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:38 am Post subject: Idiot needs HELP |
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I am a real idiot when it comes to anything mechanical and probably should not have bought the kart. Will give it a year. But I can not figure out the simplest thing. 
Just trying to break-in the engine and it will not idol below 1.300 to 1400 rpm.
AND the choke does not seem to work. By that I mean I have the choke lever all the way up and it does not start. When I push the choke lever all the way down for normal operations it starts. And sometimes I have to push on the accelerator to get the engine to run more than a few seconds.
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Chris Hatch
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Don't panic my friend, and don't beat yourself up too much either. We all have had things with our karts that have pushed our mechanical abilities to the test and made us want to ram our head through the garage door. Ask your peers for help (here and at the track) and you will find these experiences will just increase your skills which will pay off in other areas of your life as well.
Okay, First I am wondering if you have your throttle slide in properly. It is worth double checking. The slot with the chamfer (it angles to meet the slid on that side) goes toward the outside of the kart. While you have the slide out, double check to make sure the Jesus clip (so named for the expletives you yell when you lose it) is holding the needle in place. If you gently push/wiggle the needle and it moves up and down, the clip has come loose. Kart will not idle below 2000 rpm with the needle like this.
The screw on the outside of the carb screws in to increase the idle speed, and screws out to lower the speed. If you back this screw out a ways and the RPM's stay the same, check your throttle cable to make sure it has enough slack that it is letting your slide come all the way to idle.
On the W/F, the choke lever all the way to the top is choke on, all the way down is off. There is also a middle slot for partial on. I have found that I only have to use the choke when I first start the engine and usually go to partial or off very quickly. After the engine is even a little warm, you shouldn't have to use the choke.
One other thing, engines that often start a little tough (needing a little extra throttle) are usually asking for a new plug. The champions go bad fairly quickly, so you also may throw a new plug at it. I do recommend spending the extra $$ to go with a ND or NGK. I have gone over a half a season with an ND plug and only changed it because it seemed like the right thing to do. |
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Michael Polizzi
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1565
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Chris has given you some great advice.
For adjusting the cable length I always listen for the clicking sound as the slide hits top and bottom (engine not running). Also watch as you move the peddle back and forth to make sure the throttle stop is adjusted right. look for the loop in the cable where it attaches to the peddle to become tight but not fully stretched when the peddle hits the stop bolt. If you here the click in the carb and the cable is taught you should be on the stop bolt or you risk a failure of the throttle cable.
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Michael Polizzi
Full Bore Karting LLC
KartRaiser.com - The Original Mobile winch powered kart lift - New design! |
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Paul Hutt
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 388
Location: United States, Washington, Olympia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to both of you. I will see what I can do to fix the situation. First thing I have done is to correct my spelling of idle.  |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Paul Hutt wrote: | | Thanks to both of you. I will see what I can do to fix the situation. First thing I have done is to correct my spelling of idle. |
Paul , Don't try to set your idle too low. I idle mine between 2200 and 2600. Due to the carb set-up the idle wants to "hunt". Biggest concern for the idle is to be sure the engine stays running in case you spin. Like I've never done that !
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I breathe ,therefore,I race |
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Paul Hutt
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 388
Location: United States, Washington, Olympia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bernie Lacotta wrote: |
Paul , Don't try to set your idle too low. I idle mine between 2200 and 2600. Due to the carb set-up the idle wants to "hunt". Biggest concern for the idle is to be sure the engine stays running in case you spin. Like I've never done that ! |
Bernie,
I do not follow you. the issue I have is getting it to idle at 1200 for the initial break-in run on the stand. I can not get it to idle below 1300.
I ran it for about 10 minutes at 1700 rpm with temp of 205*. When I backed of the idle screw it still would not idle below 1300.
And can not start it with the choke on with an ambient temp from 40* to 50*. That is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY.
Just based on this one problem I am beginning to think that the engine has something wrong that will not be a quick fix. |
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Chris Hatch
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 1800-2000 is what I have mine idle at all the time. Compared to most, I have my idle low. I wouldn't worry about setting the idle any lower. |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul Hutt wrote: | | Bernie Lacotta wrote: |
Paul , Don't try to set your idle too low. I idle mine between 2200 and 2600. Due to the carb set-up the idle wants to "hunt". Biggest concern for the idle is to be sure the engine stays running in case you spin. Like I've never done that ! |
Bernie,
I do not follow you. the issue I have is getting it to idle at 1200 for the initial break-in run on the stand. I can not get it to idle below 1300.
I ran it for about 10 minutes at 1700 rpm with temp of 205*. When I backed of the idle screw it still would not idle below 1300.
And can not start it with the choke on with an ambient temp from 40* to 50*. That is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY.
Just based on this one problem I am beginning to think that the engine has something wrong that will not be a quick fix. |
Paul , I have never ,ever, run a Briggs engine of any kind below 2000 rpm , initial break in or whatever. It just isn't an issue. As far as diagnosing the start problem It's probably very simple but rather difficult to do so via computer . If you can get someone near you to look at it first hand it would go much farther in finding the problem. Don't be bashful when it comes to looking for help, it's out there just waiting for you.
I noticed you posted on Bob's 4 cycle , I'm sure you'll get some answers there , be especially aware of anything you see there ( or here) from FCHP ( Jamie Webb) or Jimbo ( Faster Motors ) , two very level headed , very experienced WF guys. ( there are actually quite a few on that sight but I have personal and very good dealings with these two people.
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I breathe ,therefore,I race |
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Paul Hutt
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 388
Location: United States, Washington, Olympia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Bernie. Got one response that said the needle is loose. Now I need to find the needle lying on the floor.
You might have seen my post on the 4-cycle forum with the subject "Break-In problems". There are so many ways people use to break in these simple engines. Really strange to find them much different than Briggs. 
Paul |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul Hutt wrote: | Thanks Bernie. Got one response that said the needle is loose. Now I need to find the needle lying on the floor.
You might have seen my post on the 4-cycle forum with the subject "Break-In problems". There are so many ways people use to break in these simple engines. Really strange to find them much different than Briggs.
Paul |
Nothing wrong with Briggs break-in. It's very conservative and not " race " oriented. Any race engine should be broken in with a load , either on a dyno or race track. Either way the key is to accelerate and decelerate the engine to somewhat "flutter" the rings forcing them to seat in a manner in which they will be run ( read : hard ) We are really splitting hairs here but your main focus on break-in of a race motor is to insure mavimum ring seal. That is just about the only part of an engine that can't me machined to insure the seal. Ring seal is very important to engine efficiency and horsepower. Everything else you may think break-in does is rather unimportant in a race engine.
Start the break-in with slow ,on and off the throttle laps , 5 to 10 laps, change oil , do another 5 to 10 laps a little faster. Change oil and have at it. I recommend you break in the engine with the oil you are going to race with. On 4cycle.com you will find a link to Faster Motors. Lots of great info there , especially with problems regarding mixing oils.
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Chad Stapleton
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 4403
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Would it not be useful to know what Briggs motor we are talking about here ??
Animal
WF
FH
305
Intek
Vanguard
V twin
etc etc
PS: i have several Briggs motors ( FH and OHV) in various states of tune, that all run / Idle happily at < 1000 rpm.
If yours wont do that , you either have a very radical cam /timing set up or a fault somewhere.
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Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!" |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Stapleton wrote: | Would it not be useful to know what Briggs motor we are talking about here ??
Animal
WF
FH
305
Intek
Vanguard
V twin
etc etc
PS: i have several Briggs motors ( FH and OHV) in various states of tune, that all run / Idle happily at < 1000 rpm.
If yours wont do that , you either have a very radical cam /timing set up or a fault somewhere. |
In previous posts it was made aware that Paul has a World Formula.
I agree that the engines can idle at 1000 rpm but why would you want to in a racing situation ?
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Chad Stapleton
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 4403
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Bernie Lacotta wrote: |
I agree that the engines can idle at 1000 rpm but why would you want to in a racing situation ? |
Warm up ?
convenience on the grid ?
even the Top Fuel drag motors idle !!
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Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!" |
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