 |
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Kris Zimmerman
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 432
Location: United States, Oregon, Newberg
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Roberto,
The "PRO" label was sarcasm. I'm all for bringing back "cheap" karting and that includes cheap spec classes for experienced drivers that don't want to race with the "rookies" every weekend.
I'm not trying to ruffle feathers by labeling new karters as rookies either  Oh crap, I used the term cheap when referring to racing, now someone is going to remind me that racing is never cheap
Just having fun with you Roberto  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jim Conlin
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 465
Location: United States, Ohio, Hilliard
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Great editorial, Rob. Looking for EKN's influence to make something happen. But:
Wasn't there a formula announced earlier this year that was aimng to fill this exact spot in karting? At KMI there was a big booth that had a spec frame with a Subaru industrial-type 4-cycle OHC engine and although I didn't look that closely at it I thought it was designed to be a cost-effective, entry level kart. Other than something similar going on at Michiana I haven't heard about it anywhere else.
From my experience, the biggest challenge in making entry level karting more affordable has been trying to convince the people entering karting that just because they have gone 140mph down the interstate on their sportbike or autocrossed their uncle's Corvette they belong in Shifters and TAG. ...And are sure they can be winning by the end of the summer.
How do we pursuade these wannabe racing gods that the low HP, spec racer kart isn't just for the kiddies?
_________________
Jim
jim@conlinss.com
Adrenaline Fix Karting/Conlin SpeedSports, LLC
Race Prep|Trackside Services|Arrive & Drives
www.ConlinSS.com
Facebook: www.Facebook.com/AdrenalineFixKarting |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff Field
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 641
Location: United States, Delaware, Wilmington
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Cool article, Rob. I like the idea of more focus on the club level and taking in the big picture of the relationship with the regional and national scene.
Doug's proposal, the Harbor Freight (Formula H?) class sounds like a hoot. I'd build one. Get a class going and I'd have a kart that my friends can hop in without me worrying for their lives.  That motor with warranty costs the same as a set of tires. Would they actually replace it in our application?
Not entry-level class related: One thing about club racing that has bothered me around here is we use the same tire that the regional series and the supernats uses! Come on! The club should be using cheap rocks. They are great tires, but not for this setting, IMO. I'm sure there is some tire out there that will last 3-4 race days without falling off too much. I know there will still be people on stickers every race, it would just be nice not to be forced.
_________________
It's just kart racing.
http://shifter102.blogspot.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Castro
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 112
Location: United States, Illinois, Algonquin
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kris Zimmerman wrote: | Roberto,
The "PRO" label was sarcasm. I'm all for bringing back "cheap" karting and that includes cheap spec classes for experienced drivers that don't want to race with the "rookies" every weekend.
I'm not trying to ruffle feathers by labeling new karters as rookies either Oh crap, I used the term cheap when referring to racing, now someone is going to remind me that racing is never cheap
Just having fun with you Roberto |
Kris,
To be honest with you, I was not refering to your post when I wrote my point of view. 
I just believe and know, that the roots of karting are as a Family Hobby.
Unfortunately karting in the USA is starting to be like karting in other parts of the world, where only a few can afford to do it; just look at the numbers of racers in major events and club racing in 2008.
Roberto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff Field
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 641
Location: United States, Delaware, Wilmington
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
What does that new Briggs local option motor cost? Power?
_________________
It's just kart racing.
http://shifter102.blogspot.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kris Zimmerman
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 432
Location: United States, Oregon, Newberg
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
I hear you Roberto and agree. It's time to give club racing credit and bring back the "family" atmosphere. Sorry for the finger pointing 
| Quote: | | Wasn't there a formula announced earlier this year that was aimng to fill this exact spot in karting? At KMI there was a big booth that had a spec frame with a Subaru industrial-type 4-cycle OHC engine and although I didn't look that closely at it I thought it was designed to be a cost-effective, entry level kart. Other than something similar going on at Michiana I haven't heard about it anywhere else. |
One problem here is the motor package. I have never heard of this motor, sounds like there might be very few people importing it, meaning you would be lining the pockets of one or two people and not helping the karter.
| Quote: | From my experience, the biggest challenge in making entry level karting more affordable has been trying to convince the people entering karting that just because they have gone 140mph down the interstate on their sportbike or autocrossed their uncle's Corvette they belong in Shifters and TAG. ...And are sure they can be winning by the end of the summer.
How do we pursuade these wannabe racing gods that the low HP, spec racer kart isn't just for the kiddies? |
This is where we need to come up with licensing or novice classes and not let just anyone buy whatever they want. It will be up to the kart shops to be honest and not sell just anything to anyone just because that customer has the $$ to spend. This may not favor the kart shops in some ways but the parts bills for bent tie-rods, wheels, etc. will still be there. The clubs and tracks will need to re-enforce licensing as well. I know Rob H. has already posted that this is for another time/place but it has been my pet peeve about karting since I came back into the sport as a driver in '03. Even the Rotax series needs novice classes or licensing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Keith Bridgeman
Joined: 24 Aug 2001
Posts: 1335
Location: United States, Minnesota, Farmington
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Why wouldn't you start with the Briggs World Forumula or Animal. At least an engine that has something of a foot hold around the country. Starting another low cost engine from scratch makes no sense.
_________________
http://bridgemanbroskarting.blogspot.com/
Merlin / Maxter KZ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rob Howden
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 2145
Location: Canada, Ontario, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Keith Bridgeman wrote: | | Why wouldn't you start with the Briggs World Forumula or Animal. At least an engine that has something of a foot hold around the country. Starting another low cost engine from scratch makes no sense. |
Keith, I think the World Formula is quite a bit over the $1000 mark, which would top out our $2995 goal, however, I don't think that the sealed Briggs would be out of the question.
I think another key to the development of this class would be to keep it club-only. I see it as an entry level class to get people in the sport. Kart shops are not going to make alot on the initial sales, but it will bring a new customer in the door who they would not otherwise have attracted. Once their in, they'll be looking at the TaG package sooner or later...as we all know, the next level of speed is too attractive.
_________________
Rob Howden
Editor / Publisher
www.eKartingNews.com
www.eKartingNews.ca
www.eFormulaCarNews.com
www.eSportsRacer.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kris Zimmerman
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 432
Location: United States, Oregon, Newberg
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Keith Bridgeman
Joined: 24 Aug 2001
Posts: 1335
Location: United States, Minnesota, Farmington
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rob Howden wrote: | | Keith Bridgeman wrote: | | Why wouldn't you start with the Briggs World Forumula or Animal. At least an engine that has something of a foot hold around the country. Starting another low cost engine from scratch makes no sense. |
Keith, I think the World Formula is quite a bit over the $1000 mark, which would top out our $2995 goal, however, I don't think that the sealed Briggs would be out of the question.
I think another key to the development of this class would be to keep it club-only. I see it as an entry level class to get people in the sport. Kart shops are not going to make alot on the initial sales, but it will bring a new customer in the door who they would not otherwise have attracted. Once their in, they'll be looking at the TaG package sooner or later...as we all know, the next level of speed is too attractive. |
I didn't know the WF was over a $1000, I see your point. Another out of the box idea is what if clubs invested in 10-15 of these spec set ups and then rented them out on race weekends. Or if purchased had a buy back program for them. This also insures its kept spec. This opens the door for the customer to stay in as long as they want or move up when they want. I feer of being stuck in the investment keeps people away, if there was a way of reducting that fear until they had buy into the club and karting in general it might open doors.
_________________
http://bridgemanbroskarting.blogspot.com/
Merlin / Maxter KZ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sanford Mitz
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 309
Location: United States, Wisconsin,
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rob,
As an editor, you chose the editorial content. You admitted in your comments that you were off in one direction, and now you are changing direction. My comments were not intended as a slam, as much as a confirmation of your previous direction. This was an editorial choice based on your seeing all of the submissions.
We've talked for years about the grass roots of karting. I for one will salute you and be thrilled if this is an effected direction change.
Sandy Mitz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Micah Rianna
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Doug Welch wrote: | | It can be done. A basic 2 bearing kart, 40mm axle, simple Wilwood brake system, Douglas spun wheels. Scribner plastic. No CIK but who cares! |
Why not MCP/ Enginetics? Is there a reason you prefer Wilwood? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chuck Ritchart
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 126
Location: United States, Minnesota, Jordan
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just some of the things I see as positive about this idea.
1) great next step from indoor karting.
2) slower, small or shorter kart tracks will be popular again (less over head) some may reopen.
3) Great class to take street racing and show the puplic.
4) clubs could afford to keep 2-5 for club P/R
5) small group league karting ?
6) Used market only gets more affordable for entry.
Bench racing and boasting over beer after has never been dependent on the speed you are at when beating friends. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brian Mead
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 787
Location: United States, Tennessee, Franklin
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| After reading Rob’s Editorial, I wonder if at the club levels pitching all classes out the window isn’t the way to go. Group anyone by times, split by junior and senior. I know this has been discussed at length before, but if the purpose of the article was to ask people to start looking for ways to get attendance up, this I feel might work. Run whatever you have in the barn. Pass a safety tech, pay money, sign waivers, qualify, go race. Go back to moto scoring; flip the field on the second heat, third straight up, total points wins. Faster than say .2 to .3 per lap, up to the next class. National events will always have classes, and the teams that can afford to run them will go. At club level putting in seat time and having a good time is paramount. All those Jica motors, all those ICA motors, controlled motors, open 4cycle motors, duals, shifters, 820s, limited modifieds older frames, could be used. Any tire. Any weight. National runners could come out a run tune ups. If someone was winning the fast class week in and week out, do what the German touring car series does, add wt. You’ll always have someone to run against. The new people would have some place to run with others at their speeds. I always had fun running this way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ihor Bilyy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 536
Location: United States, Georgia, Canton
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Go Top
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Login to check your private messages
Login
