Official Rock Island Grand Prix Discussion Thread

[Gary Lawson]

I agree to remove lapped traffic. It costs racers wins every year and causes accidents. The racing IS more safe when they remove lapped traffic. This is not just another event and it isn't supposed to be for beginners. If you are getting lapped what it the point of being out there?

Lapped traffic used to be removed and it made for much safer racing. It didn't stop anyone from coming before.

[Greg Wright]

For fear of going completely off topic. Removing lapped traffic is just wrong in so many ways.

First, the driver may have had a problem on the start and is running 5th or 6th place times but the leader catches him and is going to put him a lap down. That's just wrong.

Second, Right or wrong the driver paid to race and should get to race period.

Third, In virtually all of motorsport lapped traffic is a part of the equation whether you are racing karts, Stock cars, Indy cars, Sprint cars, midgets, Legends, etc etc
They all have to deal with lapped traffic and yes it sometimes affects the outcome. It's all part of racing.

Sorry for the rant and nothing personal is meant to anyone.
_________________
Greg Wright
Rapid Racing Inc.
NKN Columnist & Host "Karting News Live"

I AM INDY!!

"When in doubt, gas it. It won't help but it ends the suspense."

[Kerry Cole]

Black flagging karts is completely wrong... Look at Nascar, IRL, F1, or any major racing venue..... In some of these races people are getting lapped in 2 or 3 laps... It is a part of racing... and the only advantage I could ever see to black flag a lapped kart is to make life EASIER for the leaders (and this is not what racing is about) or due to the fact there is something mechanically wrong with the kart being lapped... and I also agree that you are cheating the guy/gal that is being lapped out of their moneys worth... If you do this you should then give them all their money back... including fuel........................

[Bill Angel]

Greg, I usually agree with you but lappers have no reason to stay on the track at Rock Island. If they would heed the blue flag maybe but I saw several that didn't this year. Lap traffic makes most forms of racing interesting and it is good to have at the club level but not at an event like the Rock. If you loose 32 to 37 seconds to the leader in 12 laps you have no chance and have either missed the setup or have had a problem.

Kerry, Nascar and the IRL do black flag cars that are unable to maintain a certain speed.

Have either of you been to the Rock or plan to go next year?

[Greg Wright]

Bill ole buddy.

First Yes I have been to the Rock and no I wasn't there this year and at this time I have no plans to go next year. Not an agenda just getting old and don't like to travel like I used to.

I stand by my statements with the provision that I sort of agree with you on one point. (only sort of)

If the lapped car does not heed the blue flag the next flag he should see should be the black flag. Common courtesy should be shown of course.
_________________
Greg Wright
Rapid Racing Inc.
NKN Columnist & Host "Karting News Live"

I AM INDY!!

"When in doubt, gas it. It won't help but it ends the suspense."

[Michael R Johnson]

During my last race at Rock Island (2006) I was racing with Martin Pierce for the lead of the TaG class.

On the white flag lap, Pierce passed a backmarker into the first corner. The backmarker then put the kart into the barrier on the exit of the first corner. Being that I was trying to pass Pierce I was right behind the driver and I immediately arrived on the scene of the incident.

I have always been for leaving back markers on the track and to this day don't think someone should be removed from the race. However Rock Island is a seriously fast place and in all fairness if someone is getting put a lap down it might be a better option to remove them rather than having the leaders crash over themselves to get by.

I think it cost me like $3,000 (assuming I remained in second over the final three-quarters of a lap) to receive prize money for second, then figuring in repair bills: axle, chassis, side pod, and miscelanous bits and pieces.

On the lift back to the paddock the backmarker appologized and said he 'knew how I felt.' I guess he did in that his kart was trashed as well, I just don't think he had any idea I was in a position to win the race....

[Bill Angel]

[Gary Lawson]

I agree it wouldn't be a problem if people actually paid attention to the blue flag. Lapped traffic is the most dangerous thing about rock island. I don't care what the situation. If you are getting lapped you don't need to be on the track. If I got lapped I would be happy to get out of the way. I would feel terrible if i caused someone to wreck or lose a race. Now that is just wrong.

[Kerry Cole]

I agree that they do black flag some drivers who can't keep up due to problems with their cars.. However, I was at the recent Bristol races and there were about a third of the cars down laps.........not black flagged... the same goes with IRL.... very rare that cars are black flagged in any racing due to being lapped.... it is all part of racing... live with it...and learn to drive around them.... as it will make you a better driver..

[jim rogero]

[Roger Ruthhart]

Terry Riggins has asked me to post this message to competitors.

*****

First of all, I would like to thank all the racers for putting on such good quality racing for the public to enjoy. Looking at the competition, even with numbers being down, I believe the quality of the races was still very high.

Congratulations to the 2008 RIPG winners. Enjoy your bragging rights, your RIGP "Rocks" and the great purse posted for this event.

I would like to thank all the RIPG track staff for working to keep the track clean and clear
throught the crashes and accidents we endured.

Thanks to a great RIGP committee for dealing with all the details and all the misc items it takes to make this happen. Thanks to Roger, Deb, Becky, Bob Jackson and all the other RIGP family members that worked to make this happen once again. Also Greg Hughes, we know you were sick Sunday morning, because we missed you at the track. Also, thanks to Chad and the great track repair crew.

Thanks to the RIGP track staff, including Tommy Argy III, flagman; grid Harold Meyer and Scott; assist race directors Troy Meyer and Bob Monday assisting me on the track; Tom Thelen scoring, Greg Pachman from AMB; corner marshals Denise, Nick, Fred, Stephanie, and John. Dennis and the Trinity ambulance EMT crews; Dawn and others on the grid and transponder table. Also thanks to our tech officials, Marty Casey, Harvey Poole, Jack Hoegerl, and our scale and tech assistants.

Thanks again to Mr. Rob Howden for the play-by-play action and great driver interviews, and Dave Cole for keeping everyone updated with very timely results and comments. Thanks to Charlie Brown and RaceFanRadio for broadcasting the event this year over the internet radio.

Thanks to all the great people of The District and the city of Rock Island for allowing a
unch of "karters" to invade the town for the weekend.

I've been reading comments and reviewing the numbers of various items.

In my years of directing events, I have concluded that all racers should be made to be a main flagman and a race director for at least one major event in their racing career, and take a refresher course every couple years. With that said, and really not being possible for every racer to do, I believe you get the point. Races are not all as perfect as we want them to be. We try hard to please everyone as best we can. But realistically, as race director on an active race course, I have no friends. We as officials have a job to do. Keep the racers and track staff safe.

RIGP hired me to be the racing director. Set schedules, help staff and supervise the event and staff. Most decisions about the event are made from the governing body -- the RIGP committee. Racing rules, sportsmanship, driver etiquette and professionalism is what I do my best to adhere to.

Here at RIGP, we are using WKA, IKF, SKUSA, Stars, TaG USA and CIK rules. Throw them
all into one bag, and make the calls as fair as we can. Then we add the RIGP Supplemental Rules, as written and published in the entry blank.

As for the situation with the blue flag, the comment was made, "but if they obey them, it works." Not to start a long, long thread as there was a while back regarding the Blue flag or Removal flag, but I too believe in allowing drivers to race. As I stated in the drivers meeting, drivers have to learn to pass and be passed as well. I know this had more disagreements after I took over 5 years ago, than now.

Yes, leaders can win or lose the race in the last lap, corner, or other places. Discretionary calls regarding the blue flag or black flag are only as good as the people seeing or heeding same.

My other comment on kart numbers is you need to come see what we see from the start/finish line or the other corners, and see what your numbers really look like at 65-75 mph.
We use radios constantly to identify lappers, mechanical, rough driving, etc.

So far, I haven't heard any comments about getting additional track time this year. Did you notice? Done with my "rant."

I thoroughly enjoy working with everyone. I enjoy meeting eveyone and I appreciate all of your kind comments and appreciate your hand shake and ideas.

I wish you all well at your next races.

Terry Riggins
Race Director, RIGP 2004-2008

[Todd Bolton]

Terry as I told you on the grid you and your people put on a class act of a show....

Extra track time??? Same amount of sessions just extended them?? Most racers want more sessions not longer sessions...Qualifying was WAY TO LONG this year....In the first session of Supercan Hvy I did 14 laps...Thats more than we race(12)....Also another suggestion....Since most classes are 35-36 second range... how about making the races 20-25 lap races.....12 is just to short on a 30 second track...JMO and food for thought...

As far as removing racers...It goes both ways....I've been leading and the lapper doesn't move over for me but lets the others by....and I've been the guy the lapper lets by....The black flag for lappers wasn't always good...Many times I still had to pass the lapper before he got to the scales...Just slowed me up and let the chase group get a little closer....I say now if you leave them on the track then the leader and the chase group has to get by them...But some guys are getting lapped 2 times a race and that is UNSAFE!!

Thanks again for another great fun year to the RIGP commitee and race staff(thats you Terry)...

Todd Bolton

[Rick Apichairuk]

To all the Rock Island Grand Prix organizers, track officials and corner workers:

You guys did an awesome job this year! I thought everything was run exceptionally well. Qualifying, practice and races were run very well. I liked the overall format.

As far as removing lapped traffic goes, I'm against it. People paid to race and they should be able too. Also, sometimes the black flag might be given to the wrong person (Ahem Ahem *cough* *cough* ) and that could REALLY mess up someone's race (again.... *cough* *cough* ). Plus, if guys are getting lapped, the guys doing the lapping should be flying by the people who are getting lapped with ease.

In the TAG Senior race, a corner worker came out onto the track and basically held a black flag in my face. I slowed down and started to pull off. At the last second, she realized that she had flagged the wrong kart and waived me off. That cost me several positions. I could see that happening on accident when there are lappers and lappees mixed in together. That would create an environment where the lappers might start to completely ignore any black flags that may really be directed towards them for other reasons. That could be dangerous as well.

Overall great job and see you next year!

[Rick Fulks]

RIGP crew.....again, great job this year!

Todd Bolton is right. (listen to this experienced veteran) RACERS would rather have more (shorter) sessions, than fewer (longer) sessions. And yes, qualifying could be shortened. Allow enough time for approx 7 laps. That's all that is really needed.

Removing lapped traffic is just wrong. In fact, the blue flag should be used on a very limited basis. Overuse leads to complacency.

The right arguments have already been made in this thread as to why this would not be a good practice. Allow me to add this; If you race long enough, a lapped car/kart will eventually cost you a win (and some bucks). However, if your good enough, lapped traffic will be to your advantage more often than not.

Street racing is alot like road racing. You don't get to go to the track week in, and week out, and hammer out better lap times. You unload and try to find the set-up with a minimal amount of track time. Some girls find it (ha!), and some guys don't. And a big part of having success in that race, at that track, on that day is negotiating traffic. Because when you win one (or more) by schnookering your competitors, with your ability to work traffic, it's sooooo sweet!

Rick Fulks

[Brian McHattie]

So, after reading all the posts in here about the lappers and such. Its my take that the faster drivers or "overtaking" drivers are supposed to be able to pass a lapped vehicle cleanly or wait for a clean opportunity. That much I can understand, I can also understand not removing lapped traffic, to a point. What I dont understand is if I get lapped by the leader for the first time, i.e. get the blue flag, I would have the common sense to know that the other leaders or front runners, i.e second and third and so on, are coming as well and would make sure to be aware of their position as well as mine. Now, from the very beginning of my racing career, I was told if you are being overtaken by a faster kart, i.e being lapped, I was taught to hold my position or line on the track and let the faster karts pass me safely.

Maybe removing lapped traffic isnt the answer, but on a course like the RIGP and similar ones, the lack of racecraft and awareness are the true detriment.
_________________
Brian McHattie
www.dbmotorsportsonline.com

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