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richard watson
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 116
Location: United States, Texas, San Antonio
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 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: Karts dont count |
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Discussion carried over from another thread:
| Larry Andrews wrote: |
Re: 'Karts don't count', I'd have to agree with that. Short wheelbase is a huge advantage in autocross (on any tight course for that matter) and there ain't a car out there that can turn as tight as any sprint kart can. Heck, A-Mod is limited to roughly two feet longer (>50%) wheelbase and they're extremely short compared to most other cars. So, I'll usually be among the first to propose that statement as a tiny dab of salve for the bruised egos of the guys who judge their self-worth upon the perceived 'cool points' of their cars.
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I agree that kart/car driver relations in autocross could be improved upon, but I disagree with the logic here. The short wheelbase is just a factor of different classes as I see it. It is kind of like saying ZO6s dont count because they have 300 more hp, gigantic tires, huge brakes, and a low cg compared to something in say, E-Stock. All are big advantages, but thats why it is in a faster class.
Richard
2007 SASCA President
www.SASCA.org |
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Daniel Morency
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 186
Location: United States, Maine, Freeport
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Couldn't agree more Richard...
part of the problem in our small (150 members... 75 to 100+ at each event) club the karts are pretty well prepared vs most of the cars that attend. Then when we do well they complain that we have an unfair advantage etc... My son runs a KT100 with a 4 hole can, a full on SCCA legal kart with the proper tires etc... he smoked the cars by over 1 sec by pax at our last event and was about .1 behind today... Since all of our lots are smaller than the typical regional or national events lots basically ALL slower classes have a pax advantage. They can see a percieved advantage for the karts but don't accept it for STS and HS vehicles.
Today he and I had the two fastest times and FTD with my PRD100 powered sprint kart and a RLV pipe. we run MGgreens and as you know they have serious grip! The fastest car was a lotus elise about 2+ seconds back...
we promptly got more karts don't count talk from several of the car drivers... The club created a fast fender award to make them feel better about losing FTD to a $2000 kart in up to $40,000 cars
BTW we have a 125cc tag that is avail for rent at many events.... we smoked the single rider of that one today too... all 4 drivers of it at the last event but got beat out for FTD by a rotax RM1... (but beat a rotax DD2 and a 125 shifter.  )
Dan |
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Larry Andrews
Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 2848
Location: United States, California, SC Mtns
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's important to remember that PAX/RTP factors for Jr. Karts don't have the benefit of results from Nationals as a basis of comparison, thus the absolute value of the index may not reflect reality appropriately.
Assuming Rick Ruth's still doing the indexes, maybe someone could check with him to see what he bases these numbers on? Heck, my fat butt can outrun a GS car in a 5hp briggs kart!
jmho, la |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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(abbreviated quote)
| Daniel Morency wrote: |
My son runs a KT100 with a 4 hole can, a full on SCCA legal kart with the proper tires etc... he smoked the cars by over 1 sec by pax at our last event and was about .1 behind today...
Today he and I had the two fastest times and FTD with my PRD100 powered sprint kart and a RLV pipe. we run MGgreens and as you know they have serious grip! )
Dan |
Um, if your son is running on MG greens, then he is a licensed (by your state of residence) driver for going to get a movie at BockBluster, or some other errand, correct? |
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Daniel Morency
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 186
Location: United States, Maine, Freeport
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: |
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he runs Dunlop DBS on his FJ4 kart
we also allow him to run the faster kart in an adult class in my kart with the MG Greens
Yesterday he got his fifth FTD of the year in 9 events! |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel Morency wrote: | he runs Dunlop DBS on his FJ4 kart
we also allow him to run the faster kart in an adult class in my kart with the MG Greens
Yesterday he got his fifth FTD of the year in 9 events! |
AGAIN:
In order to run an adult (or Open) class of any type, car or kart, a driver MUST be licensed to drive a CAR on public roads.
No driver's license, and the ONLY option is the FJ classes, and they have age limitations. I'm trying to understand how your son could qualify by age to run FJ, and have a license to run an open class. The license requirement is one very basic to ALL competitors who drive in ANY class other than the exception allowed for FJ. Read The Rule Book!
If your region allows non-licensed drivers to compete in any class other than FJ, then the program is not following the SCCA's eligibility requirements, and is in violation of the terms for sanction and insurance. If you are doing that, you must stop immediately. Take your son to a track and let him run on the greens, in a kart with more power than outlined in the FJ rules. But don't do it at an SCCA sanctioned event! |
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Daniel Morency
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 186
Location: United States, Maine, Freeport
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: |
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one: SCCA allows drivers up to 18 to run in the FJ classes
therefore a driver under 18 can be eligable to run both classes as a licensed driver
secondly we are not an SCCA region, don't use the SCCA insurance so we are not bound by SCCA rules. My son is driving in Maine BTW
Dan |
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