Has anyone looked at these engines

derek gatellie · Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 430

www.venommotors.com
They do a watercooled 250
Cheap too

Todd Hinton · Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:58 am Post subject:

Looks like the 250cc model puts out a whoping 12.5hp according to the owners manual. Sad

couldnt find any measurements on the physical size of the engine...

Last year when i was on a quest to find a good 4 cycle package that was affordable (as opposed to karting specific 4 cycle engines..) I looked at a bunch of these types of engines and small displacement motorcycle engines that had forward facing cylinders, good power(above 17-18hp) lightweight and electric start. I found that a majority of the Chinese produced "Minis" and "go kart" engines didnt measure up in the power dept, usually the displacement was just to small and power adding parts just made the engines expensive with very little gains.
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Margay Chassis
NFRA F200 Racing Series

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

My reading shows the 200cc air cooled to have 16+ hp , but i couldn't find the 250 WC anywhere ??
for $600 , a 16hp , 5 speed with clutch would make a good value "fun" kart. ... or a cheap starting point to see how much more hp could be found ?
These Chinese motors are in a similar position to where the Japanese were in the '60's .... cheap and no reputation to support them.. .............and look what happened there !
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Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!"

Todd Hinton · Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject:

My mistake, That was 12.5 KILLOWATTS..

12.5 kilowatt = 16.755 066 397 horsepower [water] at 7500 rpm..

Heck, cough up the 6 bills Chad and let us know how it turned out!
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Hinton Motorsports
Margay Chassis
NFRA F200 Racing Series

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

16-17hp , 200cc , .......isn't that similar to a F200 Yamaha ??

Judgeing by the photo's, I suspect the chinese motor with a G'box is a little on the large/heavy side for a sprint kart.
But looks to make sense for a AT buggy or even Cage kart.

Those 125 " horozontal" motors could be tempting also. I know when they raced them in ATV's they would get 25-26hp from them after a bit (lot) of tuning.
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Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!"

Greg Nelson · Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 1714

The one thing about the Chinese motor manufacturers (or any manufacturing over there) is give them a design and they will build it for less than anyone else in the world. (India is getting into this program as well.) We had some stuff at work estimated out by them, mostly complex die castings, mechined shafts and gears. You need to not just spec what you want, you need the exact design drawings as well to insure you get what you want and not an interpretation of it. Plus your design better work right from paper. Still it would be a risky prop, you would need to be willing to lay out a huge amount of cash and take a sizable production run, the per unit cost maybe better than anywhere, but they are going to want you to take a thousand or more units.
If for laughs you wanted a 250cc water cooled 4S, 6 speed shifter motor designed to get 30 hp, it may only be, say $1300 a unit, but they will base that on 1000 units minimum =$1,300,000. The likelyhood of 2 or 3,000 may be more like it. If you turn around and sell it for the bargin price of $1699 (30% profit), you will need to sell 765 just to break even. That could take years and more than likely it would be a spec motor for a class you would need to create, and the extra money needed to get that going, your going to break even after selling them all. Or you could do the European model of it, design and develope it through normal race engine program, then build it in low volume for $6,000 a unit and make money after maybe 100 units.
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Richard Domenick · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:19 am Post subject:

We have a 50 CC quad for the kids, the intake has broke, the muffler fell off and bent the pipe and the pipe never sealed no flange gaskets, the carb needed rejetting, steering flange needed rewelded after breaking off in the kids hands, chain won't stay adjusted they skipped the adjuster rod idea from most bikes, battery box needed rewelded. Bolts just loosen at will all over this thing.

If you think you buying a Honda that is relabeled think again this thing is a piece of garbage.
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Todd Hinton · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:22 am Post subject:

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

A few minutes googling turned up another ATV / Buggy maker..this one claims to use a 250cc , WC 4 stroke with 21kw @7500rpm with an integrated CTV transmision and a limited slip diff.(no chain drive).
Couldnt find a price for the motor, but the whole Buggy package was only $3000 complete
http://www.bigboystoys.com.au/PICT0751.JPG
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Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!"

Karl Cleeton · Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject:

I have been following the Chinese Pit Bike, Trailbike, ATV and recreational kart invasion from the start and always wondered when they were going to drop a racing kart clone on us.

Didn't take as long as I figured it would.

Hows this for Spec Racing, $1,100. Turn Key!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Road-Rat-Racing-200cc-Go-Kart-gas-scooter-gokart-S_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46105QQitemZ4645342495QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Todd Hinton · Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:

Check out the F-200 on the front Bumper, even the Chinese know to copy a winner!! Laughing

j/k

Nice photoshop... Cool

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Hinton Motorsports
Margay Chassis
NFRA F200 Racing Series

Karl Cleeton · Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:

Thanks Todd, I just couldn't resist and figured you would get a kick out of it! Laughing

....Karl

Greg Nelson · Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 1714

I heard that if you drive it, your hungry in an hour.
Is it true it has a bamboo fiber reinforced seat? Razz

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John Matthews · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject:

I have one of the Chineese made Road Rat karts that I'm testing right now. The build quality isn't the same as the Italians but with a MSRP of $1499- I hope to get a few new families involved. So far the assembly went smoothly and the first track test was fine. Now I'm doing some minor tweaks (mostly using just the stock parts) to see what it'll really do. If anyone needs more info just let me know.

Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

Daniel Morency · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject:

John,

Please keep us posted on your evaluation of these Road Rat karts. We run karts in autocross with kids and are always looking for an inexpensive way for families to buy into our sport.

Right now my entire family is autocrossing karts, my 9 year old daughter runninga briggs raptor and my 14 year old son and my wife and I running KT100's with can exhausts. It's a blast and a great way for kids to get driving experience!