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Rick Crist
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 3280
Location: United States, Indiana,
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 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:39 am Post subject: * * Curious on everyone’s thoughts * * |
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Maybe this has been posted before and I missed it ………
Interesting ? http://www.tal-ko.com/k4s.html …… Take a look. I would be curious on everyone’s over-all thoughts. |
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Alan Dove
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 983
Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain), not usa state,
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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The TKM 4/!!!
We have that hear in the UK!
It's what TKM decided to design to compete with Rotax MAX. At the time of the introduction of MAX, TKM 2/ was the dominant force in UK karting. When Rotax literally nearly destroyed TKM 2/, TKM decided to come up with an engine that could compete with the Rotax dominance!
Fortunately it hasn't been a huge success. Yeah, a few people have bought one, but it hasn't been able to compete with Rotax. Infact there has been a huge resurgence of TKM 2/'s! A few disbondant MAX owners have come back to TKM 2/! So really the TKM 4/ is now pointless!
People prefer the simplicity and affordability of the TKM BT82 engine over the TKM K4-S!
The engine itself is not a TaG engine, you need an outboard starter. Also it only offers 19 hp. Lap-times wise the TKM 4/ are about a second slower than the MAX.
Yes it lasts for a long time, but the engine doesn't really get the juices flowing.
It's been the but of many jokes here in the UK.
Maybe it has its place in the USA, and even here in the UK, but I think they are a waist of time! |
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Greg Wright
Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2499
Location: United States, Indiana, Clermont
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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And there you have it! 
Greg Wright
Rapid Racing Inc.
_________________
Greg Wright
Rapid Racing Inc.
NKN Columnist & Host "Karting News Live"
I AM INDY!!
"When in doubt, gas it. It won't help but it ends the suspense." |
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Chad Stapleton
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 4403
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:12 am Post subject: |
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There is always more than one side to a story.... and this follows very much the "love 'em or loath 'em" .. 4 stroke vs 2 stroke argument.
The TKM 4 stroke was developed as a dedicated class for those that wanted a low maintenance, reliable, QUIET, kart motor. At the time it was developed (1997) , many kart tracks in the UK were being shut down due to the noise environmentalists and 2 strokes were being threatened with all kinds of imminent bans ( remember the CIK planned to have only 4 stroke classes by 2004 ?). So, Alan Turney (TKM) - one of the few real kart promoters, decided to put some money into prolonging the future of karting (and his livelyhood) in the UK, by developing the 4 stroke TKM as a replacement for the TKM BT82 2 stroke - should that motor be banned for pollution, noise, or any other reason . As it transpires , none of these threats have materialised yet.
In its current form its a controlled spec 24 hp unit and ultra reliable. Sure, its not a Biland, but then it doesnt cost as much either.
Also the K4 sTKM is the only 4 stroke motor that can be directly fitted in place of a 2 stroke... ie, the mounting is the same, the drive is on the RH side, and the radiator is attached to the motor . A neat lightweight package.
Also the concept of a unified "TaG" class has yet to take off in the UK, which means the TKM was never intended as a "TaG" motor... merely a "spec" class unit. 
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Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!" |
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Kevin Willmorth
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: United States, Wisconsin,
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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And there you have it... 
Thanks Chad.  |
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John Neilson
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 495
Location: United States, California, Sun Valley
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Nice looking piece.
The components used are top notch and even the waterpump is located correctly. (Biland complaint)
Send one over for us to test....................
John |
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Kevin Willmorth
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: United States, Wisconsin,
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| John Neilson wrote: | Nice looking piece.
The components used are top notch and even the waterpump is located correctly. (Biland complaint)
Send one over for us to test....................
John |
I agree with the water pump. I;d also like to have right hand drive.
However, I would not want to give up the 2 cylinder, its sound and the smooth power delivery.
I would love to see the Talko step the power up, add a starter and come over the pond to play. Can't have enough 4 strokes in TAG as far as I'm concerned. |
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andrew holland
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject: tkm |
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for the price they are asking, i just as soon have a crf 250 motor....I think the 4 stroke motor is the way to go for karting....less maintenance, incredible hp...I thought of this for some time now but no one really has a class for them....why not just allow them to run w/ the 125 shifters , kinda like in mx...?? oh well, hope to see 4 stroke karting take off!!
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a holland |
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Kevin Willmorth
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: United States, Wisconsin,
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: tkm |
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| andrew holland wrote: | | for the price they are asking, i just as soon have a crf 250 motor....I think the 4 stroke motor is the way to go for karting....less maintenance, incredible hp...I thought of this for some time now but no one really has a class for them....why not just allow them to run w/ the 125 shifters , kinda like in mx...?? oh well, hope to see 4 stroke karting take off!! |
I've been on the hunt for a solution to the 250cc shifter project this year. The 4 stroke Yamaha and Kawasaki/Suzuki twin cam bike motors are huge, and heavy compared to the ICC motor. I even looked at the KZ250 Ninja motor, which is a twin with capability of revving to 14,500 RPM. It's also a pig in size and weighs far too much.
So far, the Honda CR250F is the best of them all in size and weight. However, the confiuration of the engine is more upright than a kart motor should be. The CR250 has a dry sump, with a separate trans, so we might be able to set it in the chassis at an angle to reduce vertical height. I'm trying to wrangle one out of a local wrecking yard for motorcylces for the last few months. We have a suspision that the setup of a 4 stroke kart is going to be dramatically different than a 2 stroke. The 4 stroke singles have half the power pulses per crank rotation, and lower peak RPM. This is going to change the rear end grip characteristic a great deal. With fewer hits on the tires, they have more time to grip, creating a too-stuck condition. The Biland suffers from this to a small degree.
Against a bone stock CR125, the CR250F should be failry close, assuming its liabilities can be overcome. Going to take a bit of research and some experimentation though. In any case, it should be a fun kart to play with. |
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andrew holland
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:29 am Post subject: Re: tkm |
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| Kevin Willmorth wrote: | | andrew holland wrote: | | for the price they are asking, i just as soon have a crf 250 motor....I think the 4 stroke motor is the way to go for karting....less maintenance, incredible hp...I thought of this for some time now but no one really has a class for them....why not just allow them to run w/ the 125 shifters , kinda like in mx...?? oh well, hope to see 4 stroke karting take off!! |
I've been on the hunt for a solution to the 250cc shifter project this year. The 4 stroke Yamaha and Kawasaki/Suzuki twin cam bike motors are huge, and heavy compared to the ICC motor. I even looked at the KZ250 Ninja motor, which is a twin with capability of revving to 14,500 RPM. It's also a pig in size and weighs far too much.
So far, the Honda CR250F is the best of them all in size and weight. However, the confiuration of the engine is more upright than a kart motor should be. The CR250 has a dry sump, with a separate trans, so we might be able to set it in the chassis at an angle to reduce vertical height. I'm trying to wrangle one out of a local wrecking yard for motorcylces for the last few months. We have a suspision that the setup of a 4 stroke kart is going to be dramatically different than a 2 stroke. The 4 stroke singles have half the power pulses per crank rotation, and lower peak RPM. This is going to change the rear end grip characteristic a great deal. With fewer hits on the tires, they have more time to grip, creating a too-stuck condition. The Biland suffers from this to a small degree.
Against a bone stock CR125, the CR250F should be failry close, assuming its liabilities can be overcome. Going to take a bit of research and some experimentation though. In any case, it should be a fun kart to play with. |
kewl dude....im glad to hear that someone else has been thinking of this as well...Im still wet behind the ears in karting so materializing some of my ideas may be easier said then done....
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Todd Hinton
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 557
Location: United States, California, Norcal
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: |
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This has been discussed in depth before: http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=36761&highlight=250f
I also started thinking about the 4 stroke moto thing a while back. IMO, the 4 stroke moto engines are at the edge of workability in a sprint Kart.. The physical size and shape of the package is really not suited for sprint racing (Howie will probably argue this  ) and might be ok for RR but not on the smaller tracks. As far as the TKM goes, I really dont think we need ANOTHER "spec" class(read: one design, vanilla, vanilla, vanilla..) do we??  It doesnt look like the pollution police are coming anytime soon and 2 smokes are going to be around for awhile if the italians have anything to do with it. Maybe Ive got my head in the sand but I really dont see 2 cycle Karting leaving the planet anytime soon. So until the big 4 motorcycle manufactures start making high performance 4 cycle, Kart specific engines to compete with each other with a good rules package, Ill be running my F200 and having fun.
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Hinton Motorsports
Margay Chassis
NFRA F200 Racing Series |
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