Money and the entry level karter

[Jeff Franz]

That's an interesting idea. How about novice races, open to anyone for their first two years only? ...As per the reason people last an average of 5 years? Money is one reason

I stole the above quotes (by Mr. Secrest) from another thread, because it is somewhat related to an issue I've heard a lot about recently.

I'm curious as to what people feel is a reasonable amount of money for an entry level kart package (chassis and motor), for someone who has never been in karting before. I've heard wildly different numbers, so I'm looking for some additional input, keeping in mind what amount is needed to put a newbie onto an MX motorcycle.

Please, I'm not interested in viability or availability or where ya gonna run such a package, just what dollar amount is reasonable enough to help draw novices into the sport.

Thanks,

Jeff

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Franz ]

[Ian Jones]

$2000-$2500

[Jeff Smith]

I would like to see $3,000 New Chassis , Sealed motor that would last like the Rotax is suppose ready to go racing. I personally think having to install a new piston and ring at 5hours or less is just crap. I,ve worked on aircraft engines that we get 3to4 Thousand hours or longer between overhauls so, I think we should easily be able to get 50hours out of a racing engine. I would like to race my Kart not have it worked on all the time.
P.S I don,t mean to start any arguments just my 2Cents Still trying to get my package together have Wife that likes to shop.

[Jean Stafford]

Jeff, How about this for a concept?

Novice class:

1. HPV, Comer,or Yamaha type sealed motor. (No blueprint charges.)
2. 3 Disc clutch, wet. (Lower power, less maintenance, lower cost.)
3. Spec Kart. (No adjustments, wheels, caster, axle stiffness, etc.)
4. No data acquisition systems. (Again, lower costs)
5. Goodyear slicks. (Hard as ---, but last a long time.)
6. No Nerf Bars. (True open wheel racing. I think this is the main reason for the driving style that exist today.)

Does this prepare the "New Karter" for future classes where the adjustments abound? Probably not as far as learning how to dial out a kart from handling, but he will learn to drive what he has.

Just a thought...

Oh yeah, one more thing, driver MUST be new, no old timers, and he/she can only remain in class for a maximum of two years.

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: Jean Stafford ]

[Brian Kay]

Jeff and all,

I really (reeeeally) think the answer is already here.

$3705 Rotax Max karts are about 2 weeks from being introduced. I'm not allowed to say WHO (yet) but it's a BIG name chassis.

Chassis - $1500
Motor - $2095
Tires - $110

Nothing else needed!

That's less than the cost of a modern MX bike, for a 125cc liquid cooled kart. 50 hour service, electric start, SEALED motor, SPEC TIRES.

IMO, entry level price point should be in the $3000 to $5000 range. This puts "us" cheaper than snowmobiles, close to dirt bikes and ATV's.

The answer is already here

Brian K - T2 RaceKarts

[Tim Brand]

Brian,
Well I know it's not Trackmagic because their price for the "Slayer" turnkey Rotaxmax package went from $3500 to $4200 yesterday.

Tim

[Kim Zobbe-Hogdal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Franz:
I'm curious as to what people feel is a reasonable amount of money for an entry level kart package (chassis and motor), for someone who has never been in karting before.
[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Franz ]

---

Yes, but.. that is like saying it cost $3000 to have a baby. That may be your hospital bill, but it cost another $300,000 to raise it. What you can "get into" karting for and what it will cost you are two vastly varing amounts.
Kim

[Patrick Hubbell]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Franz:
That's an interesting idea. How about novice races, open to anyone for their first two years only? ...As per the reason people last an average of 5 years? Money is one reason

I stole the above quotes (by Mr. Secrest) from another thread, because it is somewhat related to an issue I've heard a lot about recently.

I'm curious as to what people feel is a reasonable amount of money for an entry level kart package (chassis and motor), for someone who has never been in karting before. I've heard wildly different numbers, so I'm looking for some additional input, keeping in mind what amount is needed to put a newbie onto an MX motorcycle.

Please, I'm not interested in viability or availability or where ya gonna run such a package, just what dollar amount is reasonable enough to help draw novices into the sport.

Thanks,

Jeff

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Franz ]

---

I would say by the time you aquire all that you really need to get on the track and be somewhat competitive for at least the first year you would need to spend between $3000 and $4000 for a clutch kart and $4000 to $5000 for a 80cc. This is for used equipment wich may or may not include the driver's safety gear.

Used roller: $1500 - 2000
Engine pkg.: $800 - 1200(clutch)-
Shift($1500)
used gauge: $100 - 300
starter: $75 - 150
rolling stand $50 - 150
Helmet(used?) $200 - 500 (100 - 200)

[Michael Taksa]

Here are my numbers:
used kart 125cc shifter race ready - $3000
stard - $250
suit - $200
already had motorcycle helmet
tires so far $500
rims $200
airbox, silencer etc to conform to local track - $200
bead breaker, Starter - $100
michron2 - $450
lets add up....
~$5000
Add all the gas and other fluids plus the cost of transportation, entry fees.......
3 local club races and 2 Regional wka races so far...... 3rd out of 14 in one of regionals.
Next expense is engine rebuild in the winter, don't know how much, need to open it first and see what is there.
The big surprize was the extra $2000 after the initial $3000.
Am I competitive? maybe, but I did get to ride on 2 different new chassis and I sure felt the difference in handling! Am I going to get new chassis? Probably not for at least another year.

[Jeff Mulvihill Jr]

Well, coming from a new guy...

$4,000 should get you what you should need for a good part (or most) of a season, spares included. I can't agree more with Kim. Buying it is the upfront, easy to see part. MAINTAINING it is the unseen part. Brake pads, brake fluid, fuel, tires, spare nuts and bolts, maybe a spare side pod here or there (because this IS a non contact sport, just like basketball...), extra chains, gears, tools, fuel line, zip ties, hubs, axles, brackets.... those that have been in karting for years have a lot of "extras". Those that haven't........

[Jeff Franz]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kim Zobbe-Hogdal:
Yes, but.. that is like saying it cost $3000 to have a baby. That may be your hospital bill, but it cost another $300,000 to raise it. What you can "get into" karting for and what it will cost you are two vastly varing amounts.

---

Kim,

Yes, but please note, I wasn't asking how much it costs to maintain that entry level package, nor was I making any sort of claim that $3000 was all a person would end up spending on his/her kart racing habit. I suspect most people here are aware of the various sundry costs that are associated with the sport after that initial purchase.

My question, simply, was how much is reasonable for that initial outlay for kart and chassis. At least on this thread, I'd rather not get into how much it costs to raise it to adulthood.

$3705 Rotax Max karts are about 2 weeks from being introduced. I'm not allowed to say WHO (yet) but it's a BIG name chassis.

Brian,

I know who you're referring to, and in many ways, that upcoming chassis release helped prompt my original question. I'm also wondering how many of the other chassis manufacturers will follow suit.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Jeff Mulvihill Jr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Franz:
Kim,

Yes, but please note, I wasn't asking how much it costs to maintain that entry level package, nor was I making any sort of claim that $3000 was all a person would end up spending on his/her kart racing habit.

---

Jeff,
I understand your point, BUT is it the "initial" cost that keeps people away? Or is it once they are here they get fed up and leave? Is making a "new" package cheaper "better" for the sport? What if I don't want that package. What if I want what you have? I'm not sure that initial cost is the problem. When I first started looking into karting, there weren't ads in Racer, Autoweek, Road & Track, Car & Driver for karting, I had to go seek out the information. KARTING is cheaper than almost any other form of 4 wheel motorsports and SAFER than the other forms of 2 wheeled. For the 10 year old kid, soccer, basketball, baseball are all cheaper than karting, are you trying to attract that new person? For the "older" crowd with money (me included) golf, tennis or motorsports, those are the leading options. Karting is the way a normal Joe or Jane can really RACE wheel to wheel competively within a "reasonable" budget. Has anyone looked at the recent phenom of Rotax Max? WHO are the folks joining? Is that REALLY the future of karting? Shouldn't we be seeking out WHO is your customer vs. assuming what price they are willing to pay to play? Are you sure it's the PRICE or the attraction of the activity? Are they willing to pay and extra $500 for the activity? (Been out to play golf in California lately?) Has anyone looked at how well "arrive and drive" has done? Personally being new to karting, I want MY OWN kart, in MY garage so I can play with it. I have a feeling "arrive and drive" karting might be a pretty popular deal right now. If that's the case, your "initial" price doesn't matter. The customer isn't buying, they're renting, they don't want the maintaince issues. Know the customers, bring the product and customer together. "Arrive and drive" is doing that. So I think you have to INCLUDE Kim's points on post purchase cost. Maybe folks don't want THAT and it's keeping them from buying their own karts, regardless of price. "Arrive and drive" gives them the "real race car driver" feel. Show up, get in, race, get out, go home... no mess, no fussing.

Monday morning at the water cooler... "What did you do this weekend? "I did the most fantastic thing, I raced a kart! You should come out and try it! You'd love it! Just show up and go for it!"

I say the same thing, I just get to take my toy home with me. Was I the person you were trying to attract with your price? While I think the Max in "interesting" I didn't buy one.

[Stephen Buckley]

If a family could purchase a RotaxMax Jr. package NEW for about $2500 OR a RotaxMax for $3000, I truly believe it would be hit. Better yet, if they can buy a RotaxMax and somehow use it in a junior and a senior class.

People, remember that, according to the latest statistics in the newspapers, a vast majority of America is made up of divorced parents, single mothers, or unmarried couples. Have we all forgotten about the Dad who is working two jobs to pay for child support and/or alimony/maintenance? The same goes for the single mother, who by whatever reason, is left raising the kids. It's very easy to get wrapped up in our little comfy "family" routines, and it's unfortunate that this "happy family" scenario is the market for the future of kart racing.

First, I still think that the karting club events should be a family outting. Secondly, the "abuser's" (for lack of a better name) should be ousted out. No child or, for that matter, any adult should have to listen to frothing tirades over a $3 trophy. Thirdly, it would be neat to see clubs with karts for rent. Not KT100's, but maybe something a bit more reliable, simpler and QUIET! Or even rent out complete motor units, and the racer supplies their own chassis.

[Jeff Mulvihill Jr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stephen Buckley:
... it would be neat to see clubs with karts for rent. Not KT100's, but maybe something a bit more reliable, simpler and QUIET! Or even rent out complete motor units, and the racer supplies their own chassis.

---

Great idea... and the kart shops associated with those clubs that are giving us a place to run and the equipment (have to plug my other post here)... will do quite well when that "family" steps up to their own karts. This also lets folks EASE into karting. Try it, if they like it... we'll all benefit. If they don't maybe we can learn why.

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Mulvihill Jr ]

[Jeff Franz]

quote

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Mulvihill Jr:Jeff, I understand your point, BUT is it the "initial" cost that keeps people away... So I think you have to INCLUDE Kim's points on post purchase cost.

Jeff,

Actually, I don't have a point to make here. I have a question, that's all.

I am not refuting that those other costs exist. Of course they do, of course they should be considered when a person is calculating his outlay when entering the sport.

But I am not talking about that part of the equation. I'm not supporting one package over another, nor am I wondering why some people are kept away from the sport.

Engine + chassis = how much for an entry level class?

Jeff