Repost: CART and kart together?

Jeff Franz · Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 524

Originally posted by Rick Senechal:

The top story today is yesterday's announcement that Cart will work with NAKA to create a new national series.

I see this as a great way to bring national attention to karting as well as improve the status of the sport.

What is your opinion?

Steve Eady · Joined: 26 Jul 2001 Posts: 956

I agree what a way to bring true national/Professional attention to karting. I just hope they have classes for the younger kids as they are the future in motorsports.

Greg Keresi · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 9:54 am Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

Just as many have asked before..Do we need another sanctioning body and do they really think that this will reduce the fragmentation of the sport. This is all very interesting having known this was coming several weeks ago, but not the extent of it involving NAKA and the plans for a program of regional races leading to a national championship. Is this organization this organized and it's members aligned that they can accomplish this?
In NAKA's mission or outline of objectives and goals, one does not get the impression this was what was originally intended or was it ? Most of the problem lies in not having our sporting authority in the US setting up a structure that resembles anything worldwide. Our neighbors have been capable of doing this very well.
I'm sure it'll be interesting to see what comes about in the next several weeks with all these meetings planned in the Vegas by everyone and the events to take place as well..
Fire Away

Jeff Franz · Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 524

quote:
Originally posted by Darren Swisher:
It looks as if NAKA will have its own series besides the 6-8 races of Stars of Tomorrow that will crown a true national champion...

We need more information.

Darren (and all),

Yes, here's a recap of what appeared in the story; there are two separate things going on here.

1) NAKA will conduct what they are calling a National Karting Championship, which will be a program of regional races leading up to a championship finale held at LVKC in thirteen months' time.

2) NAKA will sanction 6-8 races to be held during Champ Car event weekends in 2002. The exact format, classes, and specifications of said races will be determined in the very near future.

As stated in the article, more information is coming in the very near future. Asking for it before then doesn't work. Trust me, I've tried.

Jeff

John Denman · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 5:00 pm Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

Chairman and CEO Joe Heitzler:

"Along with my partner, Hollis Brown, we have worked very hard to create an environment that will move toward a true national championship in karting."

Now thats a bold statement. Maybe we can hold a true INDY car National Championship at our local club track where Greg Ray learned to drive too. All we have to do is say its so right?

The intent is wonderful, but the execution is flawed.

I don't care if Bernie E himself put together a National Championship kart race, if they intend to displace those who already hold such championships without a joint effort an/or cooperation its just another wannabe.

United we stand, divided we ....race? Whats that say for the future of karting?

I wish Hollis all the best in this effort, as he has done a lot for karting, and I have to trust his experience and judgement.

But I also hope this is not intended to tarnish or even diminish the value of the existing sanctioned and unified national championship events.

Tim Pappas · Joined: 25 Jul 2001 Posts: 795 Location: Burkina Faso,

quote:
Originally posted by John Denman:
Chairman and CEO Joe Heitzler:

"Along with my partner, Hollis Brown, we have worked very hard to create an environment that will move toward a true national championship in karting."

But I also hope this is not intended to tarnish or even diminish the value of the existing sanctioned and unified national championship events.

Your last statement sums up karting in the U.S. How can you have national championship events-plural? You are either a national champion or not. That implies to me that there is a singular national championship series or race to determine that. How many 125 shifter national champions do we have? And of course each org. claims that their champ is the "true champ". The local and regional level can mire itself in layers of classes, but the national structure needs to be simplified in order to have any meaning. The question is, which organization will end up being the one we all look up to and respect?

tp

Mark Watkins · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 545

Hmmm....details to follow. Well, doesn't that sound a lot like CART's corporate policy regarding inconsequential things like...say...where there races will be held in 2002 and their engine rules package.

Many of you, who are hitching your wagon top that star, may find yourself back at the SKUSA races next season with the same pathetic shrug that many of the CART faithful have acquired of late.

Mark

John Denman · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 5:41 pm Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Pappas:

Your last statement sums up karting in the U.S. How can you have national championship events-plural? You are either a national champion or not.
tp

There are two events for a neutral National Championship as they are for different venues.

Road Racing is settled at Road America at the Super Nationals.

Sprint racing is settled in Norman Oklahoma at the US Shifter Nationals.

SKUSA has the SKUSA National Championship, but thats only for SKUSA members. The same can be said for IKF, WKA, KART, and I am assuming this will also apply to Stars.

If so, its only the Stars National Championship.

At Road America or Norman, its open to anyone. Everywhere else, its restricted only to the members of that club.

Greg Keresi · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 7:22 pm Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

Difficult to say but that's one of the major problems...we don't have one authority or type of karting we respect here in the US to determine this and the class structure to support it. We've been fortunate that we have been able to have it so many ways in comparison to other countries. Karting has taken some pretty crazy directions, some good or really let down in many ways as well by self interest and other factors. It's not going to happen overnight or in 13 months either. IMO, I don't know if this is going to unify anything or reduce any of the fragmentation.
The idea that this is another rung in the ladder system to champ car and using this as a marketing tool for promotion and exposure is still too narrow. Each organization is going to determine the level of competiton and what arena they are going to compete in. There's alot more than just the champ car ladder that US karters deserve in this country from the motorsport authority in the US. This doesn't mean there can't be other divisions of karting, it just needs to be under one umbrella that is recognized and respected.

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Pappas:

The local and regional level can mire itself in layers of classes, but the national structure needs to be simplified in order to have any meaning. The question is, which organization will end up being the one we all look up to and respect?

tp

[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: Greg Keresi ]

Rick Blood · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 10:41 pm Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

On the surface this all sounds great.
How many classes do they think they can run at an event? CART runs an extremely tight schedule. There is no extra time to run more than 1 group.
We have run as a support race for the Portland G.I. Joes CART race and we got 2 15 minute sessions on friday, 1 10 minute qualifying and 1 15 minute heat on saturday then 1 20 minute race on sunday. 80 and 125 ran together which worked out fine. That was it, 1 group.
Racing in front of the crowds was wonderful but the exposure was not what some believe it to be.
IMHO you will not see:
yourself on TV
300 entries and 6 classes
the CART guys watching your every move
anyone under 18 driving
a set of rules before March
a schedule that will let you run all of it

What you might see:
a set of rules built around the NAKA interests
none of your sprint stuff working
a thinner wallet
the long track guys shining
lots of spectators visiting your pits
a champ car race from the stands

Besides Ted Tackett will win them all.

Darren Swisher · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 10:54 pm Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

Jeff, The announcement of CARTS interest with Karting and the Stars of Tomorrow series is a good start. I feel that adding another sanctioning body is not the best choice. If NAKA was to promote the races and hire an (current) outside sanctioning body, this may help bring karters together.

To quote Joe Heitzler
NAKA will also conduct a National Karting Championship, which will be a program of regional races leading up to a championship finale at the Las Vegas Karting Center in November of 2002.

It looks as if NAKA will have its own series besides the 6-8 races of Stars of Tomorrow that will crown a true national champion, this is also good but will it be a true national champion of North America? Will it involve all eligible karters? Will it interfere with other national events with same weekend races? This will be a great task. We have heard these pledges before will they step up? Will the self-interests of NAKA members help cloud the issues?

NAKA Mission Statement
The purpose of the North American Karting Association is to organize and promote karting related businesses and activities throughout the United States, Canada, and Mexico. The optimum goal is to increase the customer base of karting while insuring that safety remain our number one priority. Specifically, the organization will focus on the development of favorable public opinion and mass media exposure; assist in the overall market expansion; develop tracking of industry demographics and statistics; implement a comprehensive government relations program; create an advisory committee to support and promote performance karting; organize a national karting affinity association; and structure a benefits program for all trade and affinity members.

We need more information

Darren

Marshall Martin · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:54 am Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

Everyone hear makes a good point and I agree that there does need to be one National Champion in a particular class. SKUSA does hold the only, open to everyone qualified, US Shifter Championships. Now we need to hold the same type event for clutch and direct drive karts. The only way this can happen is if the organizations work together. The major problem is scheduling. When do you hold it, one of the things hurting loacl racing is the amount of National and Regional races run. With all of these it leaves little time for some one to run a local program. There has been a thread started to try to start a true National Championship race and hopefully Paul Haraka will be successful. I agree we do not need another organization, but we do need some cooperation among the oraganizations that exsist to put together a program to bring Karting to the next level.

Doug Welch · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:01 am Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

For a national championship to be a national championship, it has to run under a common, accepted set of rules. A set of rules that is run by every organization.

If there are differences between organizations, then there will be some who won't run the national championship. For example, if the USSN runs under SKUSA rules, doesn't that mean that those running under WKA or IKF rules have to make changes in certain areas in order to attend the event? If they chose not to make those changes, then how can the event claim to be a true national championship if some are excluded?

It seems to me that first, the rules have to be common throughout the organizations. It appears to me that the only organization so far that has shown that it is capable to running races from one end of the country to the other is SKUSA. It seems logical that for shifter racing, the other organizations need to follow SKUSA in their rule making so that we racers can move across the country and sanctioning bodies to race. I am not going to go buy a different nose for my karts just to race one of the eastern events.

I can give an example in clutch karts. Briggs engines between WKA and IKF are very similar except for piston pop out. I don't know if it has changed but a few years back, IKF allowed .015 out of the hole and WKA did not. If a WKA guy wanted to go to an IKF grand, he/she was at a disadvantage. If an IKF guy wanted to go to a WKA grand, he needed a nwe motor. Most wouldn't make such a change, so no cross polination. The racers lose over a dimension so small, that most couldn't tell the difference.

Still another new organization seems like over kill. The sport is already too fragmented and adding another sactioning body, well, excuse me if I am skeptical.

Doug

PWeeks · Joined: 23 Jul 2001 Posts: 95

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Welch:
Still another new organization seems like over kill. The sport is already too fragmented and adding another sactioning body, well, excuse me if I am skeptical.
Doug

Well I don't necessarily advocate another sanctiong body, but the handling of the STARS/SKUSA this year, hurt us.Rule changes, shared tracks, etc.

Now that STARS stands alone, we, or anyone else, can clearly decide what sanctioning body we're running in. It might hurt us in other groups to pick one over another, but we semi-picked STARS over SKUSA this year, only to have the two groups merged and with it our interests. With them being decidedly different entities, if we suffer at the end of the year, it is through our decision alone.

Phil

Tim Pappas · Joined: 25 Jul 2001 Posts: 795 Location: Burkina Faso,

quote:
Originally posted by John Denman:

There are two events for a neutral National Championship as they are for different venues.

Road Racing is settled at Road America at the Super Nationals.

Sprint racing is settled in Norman Oklahoma at the US Shifter Nationals.

SKUSA has the SKUSA National Championship, but thats only for SKUSA members. The same can be said for IKF, WKA, KART, and I am assuming this will also apply to Stars.

If so, its only the Stars National Championship.

At Road America or Norman, its open to anyone. Everywhere else, its restricted only to the members of that club.

So what you're saying is that the NCAA, SCCA, NBA, NHL, NFL, F1, etc, etc, are not true national or world champs because you have to be a member of their group to participate. If that is the case, then there are very few true national or world champs in any sport.

tp