TRUE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP RACE

[Paul Harraka]

In my opinion there is NO WAY you will get huge participation UNLESS the event is Co-sactioned by BOTH IKF and WKA and includes KART. And the race MUST COUNT toward each organizations Individual Championship structure. Whether you love them or hate them no one can dispute the fact that IKF and WKA are the undiputed LARGEST and most prestigeous karting organizations in the country and have by far the largest membership bases. We have been to every WKA Mfg. Cup 2-cycle National race over the past 3 years and only 1 had less than 400 entries!!! And that one had 385.
Most had 450+. IKF had 340 at their Grand National this year. Not one other organization in this country, including KART AND SKUSA, has had that amount of entries. EVER! You can't argue with those kinds of numbers. There is an old saying, " FIGURES DON'T LIE BUT LIERS CAN FIGURE ".I realize that many posters on here have their own agenda to get the race for their own track or organization, and that is understandable. BUT if that could work without WKA and IKF involvement, we would have had this type of race a long time ago. IT CAN'T WORK WITHOUT THE JOINT EFFORT OF IKF AND WKA. It would be like a track trying to put on a Winston Cup type race without NASCAR's saction. If that even had the remotest possibility of working Bruton Smith would have done it already to have his 2nd race at Texas Motor Speedway. IT WON'T WORK.

[Marshall Martin]

Paul,

Great idea. To make a race of this type work you must first have a reason for everyone to attend. This reason could be a true National Championship. This requires all of the National Organizations to recognize the winners. This is not to dimnish the WKA, IKF, KART, or SKUSA National Championship Winners. This race would be "THE" US NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. It must be by invitation and the class selection should be small. Briggs lt and Hvy, Yamaha Can, Yamaha Pipe Lt and Hvy, HPV lt and Hvy, Yamaha Jr and HPV Jr plus 80cc and 125cc Shifters. This still gives you 11 classes. It can only be a 1 Race runoff so use the format SKUSA uses and this will give everyone a tough road to the winner's circle and make it a real achivement. Because SKUSA does hold a true US championship maybe the Shifters can be eliminated and bring the class count down to 9. But for those thinking of running this event remember there is a reason entries fees at a SKUSA Promoto event are almost $600.00. It takes a lot of money to put one of these events on. So when you are thinking of wanting to run this race think of how many people would be willing to pay this type of money. This will be an expensive race to run, probably $4,000.00 for the first class with all of the practice and travel expenses. At this cost can you get enough entries to make it happen?

[michael coello]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marshall Martin:
This race would be "THE" US NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. It must be by invitation and the class selection should be small. Briggs lt and Hvy, Yamaha Can, Yamaha Pipe Lt and Hvy, HPV lt and Hvy, Yamaha Jr and HPV Jr plus 80cc and 125cc Shifters.

My two cents are to break the classes down even farther and leave it open entry. Briggs medium, yam pipe medium, Hpv pipe medium, yam can, yam jr, hpv jr, and have the manufacturers at the beginning of the weekend start with an american champships sporting their best drivers and equipment in formula "a" with some prize money. Therefore a showcase to all attending of their best packages in two cycle racing. All to be run at Norway IL. On Labor day weekend. Therefore, after the Two organizations big events and close enough to Rock Island that you may get even some die hard street guys to compete.

Michael Coello

[Paul Harraka]

YO.....Martin, Coello-----WHOA. I like the way you both left out JUNIOR SPORTSMAN classes. This race was my idea but my son doesn't get to run in it??? I DON'T THINK SO!!!
Seriously, you guys are putting the "kart" before the horse. Instead of talking about which classes will be offered and how much the entry fee will be, we should be posting messages here saying that ALL THE KARTERS WANT THE RACE TO BE HELD WITH IKF AND WKA CO-PROMOTION. Everyone MUST E-MAIL AND WRITE A LETTER TO RANDY KUGLER AND TO ART VERLINGER AND CHRIS VILLAREAL AND THE IKF BOARD AND WKA BOARD TELLING THEM THAT WE WANT THIS RACE AND THAT WE WILL SUPPORT IT. Flood them with requests for this race.
AFTER they agree to have the race THEN we can form a committee of racers and long time respected people,(like Lynn Haddock, Marshall Martin, Coello, Kevin Nelson, Mike Manning, Nick Watt, Jacobsen, Kimball, etc.), to work out which classes we feel they should offer. I tend to agree with Coello that if you want to cut classes you should have "medium" class weights instead of lite and heavy. But that is something that is secondary right now.
As far as entry fees and costs to race goes, Why does it have to be any more expensive that a normal National or Grand National race costs? The KEY to holding down costs is how many entries you get. The more entries the less the sactioning bodys have to charge each entry. The fixed costs of putting on a race are pretty much the same whether you have 200 entries or 500 entries.( you make a heck of a lot more money from parking and concessions with 500 entries though ). You still need the same amount of corner workers, tech men, flag men,etc. The key is to have BIG entries. Not just for cost savings but also for prestige. Hence the joint IKF-WKA saction! As far as the cost to run a SKUSA race, doesn't that include tires and fuel? Believe me, if you have this race , in conjuntion with the IKF Grand National; and it is a WKA points race; THEY WILL COME. IKF can condense their Grand National classes into 3 days instead of the normal 4 days and they can run the National Championship classes on Saturday and Sunday. Or they can have 3 days of practice instead of the 4 days they had this year and just move everything up one day and have 1 or 2 days for the National Championship races. IKF doesn't race on Sunday at their Grand National so that day is already open. Their last day of racing is Saturday. But again, that can be worked out later. This would be a SEPERATE U.S.NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP RACE run in conjunction with, but AFTER, the IKF Grand National races are finished, at Marshalltown.
LET'S GET THE RACE FIRST.

[ September 28, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Harraka ]

[Roger Ruthhart]

For the record, its the international Rotax championships that provide housing, meals, etc. I don't think that's the case for the nationals.

Second, SKUSA awards no points for the Rock Island Grand Prix. All SKUSA "awards" is the title of King of the Streets on the winner of the SuperPro race. The RIGP pays the purse. Good events draw good talent is my experience.

Also, ours is not just a shifter event -- only 3 of 14 classes are gearbox. We have far more 2-cycle and 4-cycle entries. No points are awarded, just a trophy and checks to the top 9 finishers.

Unfortunately, and I mean no disrespect, but my "wisdom" comes from not dealing with the sanctioning bodies -- although I think they are essential to the sport. The RIGP is not sanctioned by anyone. We use SKUSA rules for gearbox classes. In clutch classes we say that WKA/IKF rules apply. Where there is a conflict, the more lenient of the two rules is used ... so if you are legal with either organization, you are legal at our race. Something like that would be needed for what is being discussed here.

As for publicity, I work for a newspaper located in the middle of TNT in Quincy, Marshalltown, and Norway. Heck, throw in Dousman and South Bend, although they are farther away. All have hosted Grand Nationals and other national events. I have NEVER gotten a phone call or a press release from ANYONE other than Mark Billings, a regional SKUSA director, promoting an event at any of these tracks. That's not a knock on the tracks. Sanctioning body promotion to the general public is non-existant ... another big problem with our sport. What does it cost to send out a press release promoting a national event?

Yes, the RIGP gets lots of press, for 2 reasons -- we make it as easy as we can for people like ekartingnews, Go Racing, Shifter Kart Illustrated, Nat. Kart News, Inside Track, the local media, etc. to cover the event, and we work hard on the local and regional media for exposure. We also spend money on advertising -- both in karting publications and local media.

Frankly, I can't believe a combined "national" will happen. Someone will muck it up. IMO, the only way to do it is for some track or club to grab the lead -- with or without sanctioning -- and organize an event and invite all of the various class winners to race against each other. Over time I think the racers would make it successful, hopefully WITH, but even without IKF/WKA/KART support. Any other way, politics will grind it to a halt, even if everyone is committed and well meaning.

The other issue is that some of the WKA national series don't conclude until Sept. Oct., Nov.(Gold Cup) ... so to include those "champions" you're almost forced to do it in November or December in the South -- or, due to holidays -- maybe January. Or, I suppose you could just focus on sprint and use Mfgr Cup winners which ends in late August.

As we all know, there is no "perfect" time ... I vote against Labor Day Weekend :-)

That's my perspective. I make no claim that it is the best one. Back to reality !!

[John Denman]

Paul

Many of us with experience soliciting co-operation between just two of the three organizations are pretty skeptical about getting them together for this. Probably easier to solve the Isreal-Palestine issues.

But never give up right?

In the mean time work with someone independently to pull this together in the case where issues cannot be resolved between the sanctions. I would work quickly on this, because once it gets started independently, it will lead the way anyway. To a track owner operation, this is a fantastic opportunity. I would bet there are already a couple of independents already studying the feasibility for 2002 just from the interest on this list.

As far as classes, you could include shifters, but this has already been done. I don't know about WKA, but more shifters showed up at the KART Nationals than the IKF Shifter Nationals, and the USSN had twice as many as both KART & IKF combined. All the clutch classes are the available market.

[Marshall Martin]

I thnk John has a point. I believe if someone starts the ball rolling it will build. But I do not think you can pull it off for '02. As a track operator our 2002 schedule is almost done. The National organizations have their schedules set. The organizer should look at these dates as a guideline in setting an '03 date. The end of July is probably a good time. It is important to chose a date that does not interfere with school. Set the date and then work with the National and Regional groups to schedule off of the date and promote it. Central in the US is a good area, don't forget there are competitors from Canada also. Don't rush it, put a good plan together and then work to get the racers to sign on. If the racers sign on the National groups will follow.

[Marshall Martin]

Paul,

Sorry about the Jr Sportsman Ommsion. I actually added the post above before I went back and read your last post. Should add them in both HPV and Yam. Medium weight only classes are also a good idea.

[Paul Harraka]

Marshall,
This race CAN BE DONE in 2002 and it will be a HUGE success with 600+ entries IF it is held at Marshalltown in conjunction with the 2002 IKF Grand Nationals and is a WKA points race for WKA members. It's up to us to make it happen by making our voices heard as owner members and showing BOTH IKF and WKA that they will make a huge amount of money off it and get a huge amount of publicity from it. Otherwise it won't happen.

[ September 28, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Harraka ]

[Paul Harraka]

Chris Villareal,
What is your opinion on all this? Will you support it if the racers want it?

[Jeff Braun]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul Harraka:
TRUE NATIONAL CHAMPION
For the last 2 years I and a few other WKA National karters have been trying to get a TRUE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP RACE. Now is the PERFECT time for it. Paul Harraka

---

Paul:
The problem is that there are as many as 100 or more US National Champs in karting. Anything to reduce the number of champions AND classes is good. You are right, now is a prefect time. Getting IKF, KART, WKA, SKUSA and others together is going to be a big job, but the Nationals in Marshalltown would be a perfect time to try.
As you know we ran the IKF GN and all the WKA Nationals and had a blast at all the races. We did that so we could find out how we compare against the best in the US. A single race where everyone could do that (with no punch requirements) would be great for all racers.
We plan to do most of our karting in Europe next year, but would have to find a way to make the True National Championship, if it happened.

Jeff Braun

[Charlie Tackett]

Good point , Paul. If this is already the IKF GNs at Marshalltown and others are invited, is their no punches penalty fee going to be waived? Is it the same for sprints as for road racing...$300??

[Paul Harraka]

Charlie,
I have been told by a Board Member of IKF that the "No Punches" waiver fee requirement will be done away with in 2002. I was told this at the 2001 IKF GN at Santa Maria. I think it is the right thing to do even if this race never happens. IKF NEEDS to draw WKA racers to their 2002 Marshalltown GN to make it a big success, and dropping the $300 fee will help that happen. ALL of my dealings with IKF for the 2001 GN were VERY, VERY cordial and positive and I found IKF to be VERY " Racer Friendly" . Based on my experiances and what I was told, I don't think the waiver fee will be a problem. If WKA and IKF can agree to a way to co-promote a TRUE NAT. CHMP. race and a way to split the fees, possibly according to which license the racer holds at sign-in, this race CAN HAPPEN. It's up to us to make them try.
If this race happens EVERYBODY WINS. If not then we all just do the same thing next year as we did this year and last year and the year before that, which is race against the same old people at the same old tracks.

[ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Harraka ]

[Debbie Kuntze]

Paul: Cool, how did that IKF board member know what is going to happen at a meeting that won't be held for another week?
Not saying I don't agree with the idea, but goodness, don't you just love an organization that works like that? Frankly, that is what needs to be fixed and if someone wants to really get this national championship thing going, these kind of "back door" tactics is what everyone will have to watch out for!
Debbie K

[Paul Harraka]

Debbie,
I don't know what you mean by "back door" tactics. An IKF board member told me that some of the board members had discussed abolishing the $300 waiver fee in 2002 and that he felt that it would get passed. I would think that this is a good thing for all racers. Why some members try to find something sinister in everything the organizations do is beyond me. Maybe that is what needs to be "fixed".

[ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Harraka ]

[ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Harraka ]