ItalSistem TAG info

[Joe Woronka]

Just got off the phone with Marty Cassey in regard to TAG/USA and SKUSA weights. Let me first say this is not a reactionary decision, this is from the ongoing working relationship to make TAG all it can be.

The ML47H will run the analog ignition in Seniors at the 375lb weight.

The ML47H will run the digital ignition in Master at the 395lb weight.

Everyone working with TAG/USA, SKUSA, manufactures, importers, advisors; are all having Agry's vision in mind. Remember this is a class in a building process and ajustments will come as needed.

One other note the Vortex ROK was tested and is in the class. (musta been a typo)
ROK will run in juniors at 320lb, seniors at 375lb, masters at 390lb

Hope this clears some of the air,

Joe Woronka
_________________
JW's Eurotech Racing

"Driving fast is like sex, all men think they are good at it." Jay Leno

[Jose Rodo]

Joe,

Thanks for clearing the air, but why the masters class have to be close to the 400#?
Is it the older you get the heavier you are?
I'm 43 years old, 6' at 178-180 and I have to run seniors and not masters because of the amount of ballast I have to put.
Is the majority of over 35 overweight in this country?

Jose Rodo
Swiss Hutless/Sonik/Vega

[John Denman]

[joseph hollinger]

[Richard Haight]

I agree, the weights need to be adjusted downward, instead of trying to accomodate the heaviest "Common Denominator" all the time. Even at 190+ pounds, I had to add 15+ pounds to make weight in Rotax.

Now, at 176, it means adding 35+ pounds(!!!), or running in "International", at 355.

It seems like almost everyone has to add weight, and if that is the case, the divisions need to be re-drawn. If you do a survey, and the majority seem to be coming in at 375 or 380 (without weights), then move it down to the 80th percentile median weight.

Just my $.02 worth

[Jose Rodo]

John,

working 12 hours and no time to exercise, is no excuse to be overweight. Eat in moderation and pay less visits to MacDonald's and Pizza Hut.

Richard and Joseph,

I guess I'm not the only one over 30 that has to run senior because of this ridiculous sumo master weight. Maybe they will come to a reality check and drop the weight for the older guys.

The saying of the older I get, the faster I was don't apply to a lot of us

[Bob Ogden]

Thanks for the nutritional advice, Jose.
Like I said on the other thread on this subject. If this was the popular opinion, why did 11 of 17 TaG drivers in Sacramento last Sunday choose to run Masters instead of senior, in spite of a +20 pound handicap?
Could it possibly be that only 6 of 17 could make the lighter weight? Hmmmmmm
Now let's see what happens if 2/3 of all the TaG owners decided not to race because they couldn't compete with the 150 pounders. 11*50 (at Prairie City) = $550 off the top of the revenue. I don't even want to guess the effect if this were extrapolated to all clubs nationwide, but my feeling is between Rotax and TaG it would not be an insignificant number.
Of course, then, there are those who are still firmly locked in the Yamaha paradigm where we have 10 or 12 classes at each race all running the same basic engine package, all based on weight.
That could be done, then we could all come back and listen to the bitchers whining about their 3 lap heats and 4 lap mains.

[Rob Martin]

Richard,
385 was / is a very popular weight for many Rotax club races where there is not enough participation to divide the class into masters and international.

You will never be able to make everyone happy with the weights but certainly trying to accomodate 80% of the drivers is a very good compromise.

The only consideration is how to evaluate the data for a good 80% ideal driver weight. Simply taking the Median Weight is a serious disadvantage to any driver who happens to fall on the plus side of the median.

To accurately set the weight and offer the same performance advantage to 80% of the drivers, 80% of the drivers must fall below the calculated ideal driver weight. As you might imagine, this equalization of the median will cause the ideal calculated driver weight to be several pounds heavier than a true median (or average) value.

For a US Median weight of 175 (example) it may require an ideal driver weight of 185 to capture the full 80% of the participants below this selected level.

Just remember that the average driver can always add weight in the short-term to the chassis. Taking weight off the driver is never a short term option.

-----------
Jose,

You may want to choose your words carefully.

A lower body weight is NOT an automatic qualification of health, strength, athleticism, or longevity.

The stereotype that skinny people are more healthy is rediculous.
Under-weight and Obese people often die of the same causes.

It's ok to be happy with your own physique. Just don't assume your shape is the only one that is "right" for karting.

It takes all body types to make the world-go-round.

[joseph hollinger]

[Richard Haight]

Rob:

I agree in principle with your synopsis, but from what I have seen, a large number of people have to add weight. If the majority have to add 10-15-20 pounds, then it is time to adjust the weights.

In point of fact, the weight ought to be set in the middle.

I realize that it is a slight disadvantage to a few people, but you can't bulk up the entire class for the benefit of the few.

As you and I are fully aware, there are some people who are over the weight, without adding an ounce, and they FLY..... I promise not to mention a prominent and successful dealer here in Southern California, whose initials are.... (Oops, never mind..) who we should each get to hand a 2 pound weight to, before each heat

[Rob Martin]

Richard,
You set a racing weight in an effort to level the field.
If you take the average weight (median), you are only equalizing 50% of the drivers. The other 50% of the drivers over the median are automatically at a disadvantage.

Perhaps 80% is unrealistic, certainly 70% should be a goal.

The ONLY time that class weights are truly out of line is when the heaviest driver in the class is adding weight. Any weight slightly below this value is the best attempt to accomodate 100% of the drivers.

Ideal Driver Weight=No weight added, No weight penalty.

Clubs can and perhaps should poll their active racers to determine the ideal driver weight. Clubs should also take the time to capture the chassis / motor weights for each TAG class. All of this data will help define TAG in the years to come.


PS. Andy's not fat. He's just big-boned.

[Brian McHattie]

Is it me or did this thread get hijacked???

[Bob Francis]

yeah it did and I didn't do it. but apperantly this wieght issue is really important eh?
_________________
B.Francis,

[Joe Woronka]

[Jeff DeMello]

Joe Now I know why we don,t see you at the track on windy days