EasyKart and TAG

Chuck McCue · Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 2944

"Most regional and national racers want as many tuning options available to them as possible. "

"Could someone take their EK and run in the TAG class?"

My crystal ball says yes. I have a strong feeling another popular "Super" national series will include Easykart in the TaG classes.

"They could if someone can get the EK engine certified."

Carefull what you wish for. Very Happy

"I believe, as someone mentioned before, that the EK racer would be at a disadvantage due to the lack of tuning options available on the kart."

When an Easykart is rum with other TaG's they will have the options offered to other TaG packages such as axles, caster pills, hubs wheels, etc.

"One other thing about the EK bothers me. If you're going to run the EK at a local club level, the odds are that only one shop in the area will be selling the EK."

Wrong! for example in north Florida there are at least 4 dealers in a 2-3 hour range. Miami has Easykart dealers literally next door to each other. Easykart in more inclusive that exclusive compared to other spec racers.

"Therefore, by the exclusionary nature of a strictly EK class, you have just handed that shop a monopoly."

Has not happened in Easykart but this problem exists in other series.

"I personally don't believe that monopolies are healthy for karting. This is why I am very much behind the TAG concept as opposed to Rotax."

I agree 100%, That is why I like the Easykart and TaG.
_________________
Chuck McCue

Jim Durrell · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:45 am Post subject:

Chuck,

If you add all of the tuning options that the EK doesn't come with, what will make it any different than any other TAG kart? In addition, doesn't this pretty much defeat the purpose of the EK?

Not to be disagreeable, but demographically speaking, shops 2-3 hours apart aren't exactly in the same market. Think about it. For example, how long does it take to get from Daytona to Tampa? Approximately 2 ½ - 3 hours. Not the same market. Birel is well known for their protected territories and I can't imagine them changing for this package.

If you were including the EK in a TAG class then it would run with other TAG packages, such as the Russell Rocket TAG package, and would not be exclusionary.

On the other hand, EK class = EK (low line Birel) chassis + EK (air cooled IAME) engine = Exclusionary. No matter how you spin the details, it comes out the same. I don't see how you can possibly call it an inclusive ckass.

I do not want to get into a great EK debate. It is what it is. I just ask that it not be called a TAG class, because it isn't. It's more like Rotax with a spec chassis.

Respectfully,

Jim Durrell Smile

Chuck McCue · Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 2944

Jim,
I think you missed my point, no spin here. When the Easykart in run in a standalone Easykart series/race, yes, all other TaG's are excluded and tuning options are limited. However you can run other series that will qualify the Easykart as a TaG and you can use non-spec components to tune to your desire. Below I'll answer you Q's.

"If you add all of the tuning options that the EK doesn't come with, what will make it any different than any other TAG kart?"

Almost nothing, except that the Easykart is air cooled.

"In addition, doesn't this pretty much defeat the purpose of the EK?"

No. Run the Easykart series for a true spec series, Run your Easykart in TaG for a very fast low cost alternative to other TaG packages.

"Not to be disagreeable, but demographically speaking, shops 2-3 hours apart aren't exactly in the same market."

For Florida I think the "shops" in a 2-3 hour radius are in the same demo. especially since you could count the # of true kart shops in north Florida on one hand excluding your thumb. Very Happy

"Think about it. For example, how long does it take to get from Daytona to Tampa? Approximately 2 ½ - 3 hours. Not the same market."

Do You live in Florida? Daytona has 0 2/ kart shops, Tampa/St. Pete maybe 3 shops.

"Birel is well known for their protected territories and I can't imagine them changing for this package."

May be true, But Easykart is its own program and will offer any legit shop and some mom and pop's in as "dealers".

So it's easy, with your Easykart spec racer:

If you want to run a 100% spec. class run the Easykart series (Stars, Regionals, locals).

If you want to run TaG (local, SKUSA,etc.) you do have the ability to tune you chassis and can be very competitive with all other TaG's.
_________________
Chuck McCue

Axel Korn · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:07 pm Post subject:

Stars offers the pinnacle of talent the opportunity to compete and gain exposure under the CIK format with some minor changes. Rotax had a low turnout because aimed at the recreational racer, the associated cost for recreational racing is too high. (even with the concept of cost saving with the seal)

EK is even more restricted than Rotax, because besides the motor, all tuning tools for the chassis have been eliminated as well. There is nothing pinnacle about EK. Its kinda like a shopping kart with an engine. That (lack of experience in making changes and the effects thereof) certainly prepares a youngster for a technical debrief after a BMW test session.

EK will never be what ICA, JICA and ICC is and will become. Cash is always king and Stars can certainly use the cash EK paid them for their series. However, EK is a seriously limited ride and will never have the recognition the ICA, JICA and ICC have.

In a national TaG Championship, Easy kart will most certainly be "Easy Prey" (Thanks Joe)

IMO it has no place In the Stars Series.

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

[quote="Axel Korn"]..........EK is even more restricted than Rotax, because besides the motor, all tuning tools for the chassis have been eliminated as well. There is nothing pinnacle about EK. Its kinda like a shopping kart with an engine.
In a national TaG Championship, Easy kart will most certainly be "Easy Prey" (Thanks Joe)
quote]

Axel,
has it occurred to you that someone might just run an EK motor on a "pinacle" chassis. ??
you may just be surprised at how competitive it could be !

PS:- there is an unplesant taint of "class superiority" in your post ! Crying or Very sad

_________________
Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!"

Axel Korn · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:46 pm Post subject:

"has it occurred to you that someone might just run an EK motor on a "pinacle" chassis. ??"

Chad, that's the whole point. It is only allowed to run on a entry level Birel chassis and one is not allowed to change caster, camber, pills, spindles, axles, hubs and many other components. Crying or Very sad

To run something that restricted in a series that is primarily for the elite, it simple is a black sheep and does not make sense. Question

Sure, take the motor, bolt it onto a different chassis that can be tuned properly and yeah - we may have a ride. Smile

Jim Cassi · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:08 am Post subject:

David Thompson SR · Joined: 06 Mar 2002 Posts: 584

Axel Axel Axel....

"Chad, that's the whole point. It is only allowed to run on a entry level Birel chassis and one is not allowed to change caster, camber, pills, spindles, axles, hubs and many other components. To run something that restricted in a series that is primarily for the elite, it simple is a black sheep and does not make sense"

Easy kart 125 is Based on a Birel R30CY , That kart is fully capabale of racing with any kart on the market in tag.In tag we can add caster and camber pills struts many many many axles and all the normal Birel tuning we have used for years.This kart has a 32mm frt bar and 30 mm structure and a 40 mm axle which in tag could be changed to a 50mm if need be at 355 pounds it will work just fine.

I dont know too much about the motor package yet but we will be doing some extensive testing in the coming weeks.

I think this is a great program on a limited budget and think it will be fun to watch it develop as rotax has.

Stay tuned...

Dave Thompson Sr

www.davesperf.com

joseph hollinger · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:56 pm Post subject:

Axel Korn · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:21 pm Post subject:

Dave...

I'm not saying that the Birel R30CY is not a great chassis. I understand that in TaG it is fully adjustable and tunable and I'm sure can be extremely competitive under those conditions.

What I was saying was that in the Stars EK class, those tuning aids you listed are not allowed based on the rules.

Irrelevant what chassis manufacturer one selects, without being allowed to use the tuning tools available, to make the kart perform at its best, clearly is extremely limiting. I just don't see how that class with those rules, fits in with the rest of the Stars classes.

David Thompson SR · Joined: 06 Mar 2002 Posts: 584

Axel

I think we can both agree its going to be Interesting to see who can go the fastest with these min tuning aids..

Does it belong at stars? Its there for this year Rotax didnt get the draw by this time next year we will know the story im sure...

As for tag Im not sure how that will work out time will tell...

One more thing and this may be a little premature but, We as a shop our looking at putting together a arive and drive program with Easy Kart for the 04 season look for a press realease soon hopefully.

Dave

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

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_________________
Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!"

Andy Seesemann · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:44 pm Post subject:

The name "EasyKart" refers to the entire package and concept more than any other TaG package. If you change one tiny thing, you change the entire product.

That is the confusing part of this entire argument for most.

The product called the "EasyKart" does not allow any chassis tuning items at all, it is a completely spec package. It would be foolish to race this product in TaG, because in TaG, chassis tuning options are open. Once you change an axle on an "EasyKart", it ceases to be an "EasyKart".

Obviously, to be competitive in TaG, you are going to have to work with caster and chassis flex, and we know that anyone that owns this product will do so. However, once they do so, they won't own the product they once bought. If they put the IAME motor that is part of the "EasyKart" package, they merely have an aircooled TaG package.

Therefore, I do think that you can race an "EasyKart" in TaG, you just won't win with one.

Andy
_________________
Andy Seesemann
FULL THROTTLE KARTING
Orange County, CA.
www.fullthrottlekarting.com
Rotax Challenge of the Americas
www.rotaxchallenge.com
WKA District 10 Trustee
www.worldkarting.com
Really Good Guy.

Michael Suda · Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:40 pm Post subject: EasyKart in TAG

I see that TAG USA http://www.tagracing.net/rules/index.html has a weights listed for "EasyKart IAME 125". This leads me to believe it is now approved to run in TAG. Does this mean that the "EasyKart IAME 125" engine can be used on any chasis? Where can one buy the engine package alone and what is the approximate price?

Mike