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| If tracks went back to 1/2 mi. 20-24' wide, nerfs only, I'd be: |
| LESS inclined to race |
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53% |
[ 45 ] |
| MORE inclined to race |
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30% |
[ 26 ] |
| INDIFFERENT about racing |
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15% |
[ 13 ] |
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| Total Votes : 84 |
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| Author |
Message |
joseph hollinger
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 9468
Location: United States, California, san francisco
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 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Hurst wrote: |
Read the article, very little accidents. |
Said the guy who owes his life to a tree. I'm sorry, but whatever measures you thought were appropriate weren't yours to make in the first place. Had anyone been hurt, including the people you were racing with, all of you would have been subject to criminal liability.
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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill. |
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Jeff DeMello
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 2213
Location: United States, Pittsburgh Pa,
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Lawyers  
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Jeff DeMello
Emmick F125 Pavesi |
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joseph hollinger
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 9468
Location: United States, California, san francisco
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff DeMello wrote: | | Lawyers |
Morons.
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Chris Hurst
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 569
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff DeMello wrote: | | Lawyers |
Phil Hill was a part of the early Mulholland days! Maybe he knows a good attorney I can call 
I'm sure there are rules now on the FIA level for track width etc, but I've been told you don't have to run side pods if you're just doing driving for fun on the weekend at local tracks.
What is to stop a group of guys who feel side pods / nerf bars are nonsense from running an unsponsored get together on a random weekend of their choosing? Go to Grange or Adams and just get a group of 10-20 guys, make up a class with your own rules and have fun on your own terms.
Everyone could put $20 on the race in a winner takes all sort of thing.
Stu Hayner seems to have gone and done his own thing with F100karters, why not start something for guys who want to adopt a more old school mentality? |
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Tim Pappas
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 791
Location: Burkina Faso,
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Jeff DeMello wrote: | Chris. I wish I could have ridden that good to do what you did.. I lived in Lancaster Ca for a year in 1986 -7 and I would start in Palmdale go thru angles forest to the Rock Store and back.. I thought I was fast until some group of kids would go blowing by me like I was standing still  I was on my new back then 900 Ninja.. I remember I think it was Boquet Canyon ?. Rode that a bunch of times..
Joe you live only once so go for the gusto.. Some guys think we are nuts racing in a group o 5-10 kart pack at 110+mph |
Oh yeah. Bouquet Canyon. I grew up 5 miles from the upper entry to the Canyon and rocked it with a home built twin turbo Capri. That car surprised some expensive hardware that would come up from LA on weekends. I had a bit of a local advantage, but it was still fun for a country boy to smoke a loafer wearing rich guy in a 911. I dated a hot chick in Culver City and could make the drive door to door in 48 minutes. If you know the area, then you know just how much of a moron I was. It wasn't any smarter then than it would be now, but they were different times. I never really expected to live past 25 growing up. I'm in the bonus round now. And the hot chick even married me! Who was the dumb one? |
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Chris Livengood
Joined: 24 Jul 2001
Posts: 2432
Location: United States, Pennsylvania, Da Burgh
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Pappas wrote: | | Jeff DeMello wrote: | Chris. I wish I could have ridden that good to do what you did.. I lived in Lancaster Ca for a year in 1986 -7 and I would start in Palmdale go thru angles forest to the Rock Store and back.. I thought I was fast until some group of kids would go blowing by me like I was standing still I was on my new back then 900 Ninja.. I remember I think it was Boquet Canyon ?. Rode that a bunch of times..
Joe you live only once so go for the gusto.. Some guys think we are nuts racing in a group o 5-10 kart pack at 110+mph |
Oh yeah. Bouquet Canyon. I grew up 5 miles from the upper entry to the Canyon and rocked it with a home built twin turbo Capri. That car surprised some expensive hardware that would come up from LA on weekends. I had a bit of a local advantage, but it was still fun for a country boy to smoke a loafer wearing rich guy in a 911. I dated a hot chick in Culver City and could make the drive door to door in 48 minutes. If you know the area, then you know just how much of a moron I was. It wasn't any smarter then than it would be now, but they were different times. I never really expected to live past 25 growing up. I'm in the bonus round now. And the hot chick even married me! Who was the dumb one? |
You, for getting married.
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Yeah,
I used to run my Kawasaki 500 triple on Highway 9 and Skyline Blvd in the SF Bay Area at death defying speeds back in the day too
But this was after we got out of karting (can't for sure blame Bridgestone but it sure did drive up the cost going to soft tires).
I think it's great that all us old guys, and I include Billy in this category, love karting and want to go fast. Or slow, or some speed in between. However that's not the point of this thread as far as I can tell. To me the questions is has karting gotten so far beyond it's original intention as to be irrelevant for a large portion of it's potential audience?
Look at this thread. http://ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=120109
It very quickly changed from how proud a father was of his son and how much he appreciated a local tracks racing program to "can I drive my shifter there?" Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way but I find it kinda cool that this father and son are enjoying the hobby together. Now in this case the father has the means, and desire to drive karts himself but how many others are out there who could be involved but aren't because of the complexity of our sport or the speeds even very young drivers run on the bigger tracks?
Sprint racers, if you want to find out the answer to this question just head out to your local dirt oval track some Saturday night and check out what's happening there. Sure you'll find the 40' haulers with 100 tires on a rack but you'll also see plenty of regular folks running stock class with 15 year old karts. Most of these tracks put an emphasis on the youth programs and spend much less time worrying about their "masters" classes. I'm not saying their situation is perfect but there are a whole lot more of them than there are of us so what does that tell you?
To me it's pretty basic economics. Most families only have so much expendable income and are more likely to spend their leisure dollars on something for their kids. Kart racing is an ideal sport for many of them because it's one of the only sports where the parent and kid are actually on the same team. Let me repeat that because I think lots of folks never think about it this way. If your kid plays little league you might, or might not be the coach but even if you are you're coaching a whole bunch of kids. Most parents are sitting in the bleachers and their role is primarily transportation and financial support. In kart racing you're actually ON THE SAME TEAM AS YOUR KID  This gives you a much better chance of passing down your values and your kid a better chance of learning what makes you tick. It wasn't until I got back into racing in my 30's that I understood all the things my dad taught me through kart racing and now I know without that time I wouldn't know him nearly as well as I do.
Real or perceived, if karting looks like a place where you have to spend a bucketload of money just to get started people will look elsewhere for their family entertainment. But if we make sure that tracks are family friendly, kids programs are at least as important as adults, and keep the barriers to entry as low as possible for families we'll grow the sport. If we concentrate on only the high end of the sport, or on adults looking to re-live their glory days of canyon racing things will continue the way they've been going.
JMHO,
_________________
John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 412
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:41 am Post subject: |
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You know we keep hearing about the cost of karting being such a problem. My son got interested so we bought a used Extreme Kart roller for $500 Built a clone for $350 tires clutches etc. around $400. So for under $1300 we have a competitive kart. 9 hours of practice time and we have a competitve driver who wins his first race this past Sunday. How much cheaper do you think it should be?
Nancy Boys ?? It's not about how fast you go it's about what you can do with what you've got.
Shifters may seam a little pricey but compared to what other kind of sprint racing that's readily accesable and easy to get seat time?
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Hi Brian,
I'm pretty sure no matter what else happens for your family with karting that first win with your son will remain the best 
As you've pointed out, we have about the best situation for growing the sport we've had in a long time. Equipment costs are way down for entry level classes and many clubs are embracing low power racing as a way to get and retain drivers. This is what I see as the point of this thread, and many others I've participated in over the years.
Racing at the higher levels will always be a "gentleman's" pursuit, but the kind of club racing you've found with your son really is accessible for lots of folks. I would heartily encourage you to get involved with leadership at Tri-City and share your passion with other parents who's kids would like to also be on the same team with their folks
Cheers,
_________________
John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Stu Hayner
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 223
Location: United States, California, Yorba Linda
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:16 am Post subject: Cost of karting today |
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| John Matthews wrote: | Yeah,
I used to run my Kawasaki 500 triple on Highway 9 and Skyline Blvd in the SF Bay Area at death defying speeds back in the day too
But this was after we got out of karting (can't for sure blame Bridgestone but it sure did drive up the cost going to soft tires).
I think it's great that all us old guys, and I include Billy in this category, love karting and want to go fast. Or slow, or some speed in between. However that's not the point of this thread as far as I can tell. To me the questions is has karting gotten so far beyond it's original intention as to be irrelevant for a large portion of it's potential audience?
Look at this thread. http://ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=120109
It very quickly changed from how proud a father was of his son and how much he appreciated a local tracks racing program to "can I drive my shifter there?" Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way but I find it kinda cool that this father and son are enjoying the hobby together. Now in this case the father has the means, and desire to drive karts himself but how many others are out there who could be involved but aren't because of the complexity of our sport or the speeds even very young drivers run on the bigger tracks?
Sprint racers, if you want to find out the answer to this question just head out to your local dirt oval track some Saturday night and check out what's happening there. Sure you'll find the 40' haulers with 100 tires on a rack but you'll also see plenty of regular folks running stock class with 15 year old karts. Most of these tracks put an emphasis on the youth programs and spend much less time worrying about their "masters" classes. I'm not saying their situation is perfect but there are a whole lot more of them than there are of us so what does that tell you?
To me it's pretty basic economics. Most families only have so much expendable income and are more likely to spend their leisure dollars on something for their kids. Kart racing is an ideal sport for many of them because it's one of the only sports where the parent and kid are actually on the same team. Let me repeat that because I think lots of folks never think about it this way. If your kid plays little league you might, or might not be the coach but even if you are you're coaching a whole bunch of kids. Most parents are sitting in the bleachers and their role is primarily transportation and financial support. In kart racing you're actually ON THE SAME TEAM AS YOUR KID This gives you a much better chance of passing down your values and your kid a better chance of learning what makes you tick. It wasn't until I got back into racing in my 30's that I understood all the things my dad taught me through kart racing and now I know without that time I wouldn't know him nearly as well as I do.
Real or perceived, if karting looks like a place where you have to spend a bucketload of money just to get started people will look elsewhere for their family entertainment. But if we make sure that tracks are family friendly, kids programs are at least as important as adults, and keep the barriers to entry as low as possible for families we'll grow the sport. If we concentrate on only the high end of the sport, or on adults looking to re-live their glory days of canyon racing things will continue the way they've been going.
JMHO, |
Plus one!
To John Matthews.
Someday, I'd like to meet the man that speaks so genuinely and intelligent about this sport. It will be a pleasure - and it will be all mine!
_________________
Remember......it's not always the best arrow...but more importantly the best Indian. |
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 412
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Plus 2 John's post is right on the money.
Brian |
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Cory Ross
Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 137
Location: United States, Colorado, El Jebel
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| John Matthews wrote: |
Real or perceived, if karting looks like a place where you have to spend a bucketload of money just to get started people will look elsewhere for their family entertainment. But if we make sure that tracks are family friendly, kids programs are at least as important as adults, and keep the barriers to entry as low as possible for families we'll grow the sport. If we concentrate on only the high end of the sport, or on adults looking to re-live their glory days of canyon racing things will continue the way they've been going.
JMHO, |
Karting will always be perceived as expensive. All you have to do is mention an engine to 90% of the population and they instantly think it is going to take time and money to keep it running. Very little of the population has any experience with engines. Hell a vast majority cannot keep their simple 5hp lawn mower(a lot of people think of this when they think of a kart engine) working correctly. There is no way you will convince them a kart engine is going to be cheap and easy to keep running. The first hurdle for attracting new racers is overcoming all the preconceived notions of an engine. Engines come with the black cloud of high maintenance costs, running costs, and constant work to keep them running and competitive. To the general public a shifter kart, Tag, clone, whatever all have the same engine. To them an engine is expensive to maintain(few people are their own mechanics) and run.
As for racing in general the people racing in a sport is always going to be a small segment of the people in the sport. Look at motocross. The amount of people that go to the track for track days far out numbers the amount of riders that actually show up for races. |
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Chris Hurst
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 569
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| John Matthews wrote: | Yeah,
I used to run my Kawasaki 500 triple on Highway 9 and Skyline Blvd in the SF Bay Area at death defying speeds back in the day too
But this was after we got out of karting (can't for sure blame Bridgestone but it sure did drive up the cost going to soft tires).
I think it's great that all us old guys, and I include Billy in this category, love karting and want to go fast. Or slow, or some speed in between. However that's not the point of this thread as far as I can tell. To me the questions is has karting gotten so far beyond it's original intention as to be irrelevant for a large portion of it's potential audience?
Look at this thread. http://ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=120109
It very quickly changed from how proud a father was of his son and how much he appreciated a local tracks racing program to "can I drive my shifter there?" Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way but I find it kinda cool that this father and son are enjoying the hobby together. Now in this case the father has the means, and desire to drive karts himself but how many others are out there who could be involved but aren't because of the complexity of our sport or the speeds even very young drivers run on the bigger tracks?
Sprint racers, if you want to find out the answer to this question just head out to your local dirt oval track some Saturday night and check out what's happening there. Sure you'll find the 40' haulers with 100 tires on a rack but you'll also see plenty of regular folks running stock class with 15 year old karts. Most of these tracks put an emphasis on the youth programs and spend much less time worrying about their "masters" classes. I'm not saying their situation is perfect but there are a whole lot more of them than there are of us so what does that tell you?
To me it's pretty basic economics. Most families only have so much expendable income and are more likely to spend their leisure dollars on something for their kids. Kart racing is an ideal sport for many of them because it's one of the only sports where the parent and kid are actually on the same team. Let me repeat that because I think lots of folks never think about it this way. If your kid plays little league you might, or might not be the coach but even if you are you're coaching a whole bunch of kids. Most parents are sitting in the bleachers and their role is primarily transportation and financial support. In kart racing you're actually ON THE SAME TEAM AS YOUR KID This gives you a much better chance of passing down your values and your kid a better chance of learning what makes you tick. It wasn't until I got back into racing in my 30's that I understood all the things my dad taught me through kart racing and now I know without that time I wouldn't know him nearly as well as I do.
Real or perceived, if karting looks like a place where you have to spend a bucketload of money just to get started people will look elsewhere for their family entertainment. But if we make sure that tracks are family friendly, kids programs are at least as important as adults, and keep the barriers to entry as low as possible for families we'll grow the sport. If we concentrate on only the high end of the sport, or on adults looking to re-live their glory days of canyon racing things will continue the way they've been going.
JMHO, |
Well said. |
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Tim Pappas
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 791
Location: Burkina Faso,
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Livengood wrote: | | Tim Pappas wrote: | | Jeff DeMello wrote: | Chris. I wish I could have ridden that good to do what you did.. I lived in Lancaster Ca for a year in 1986 -7 and I would start in Palmdale go thru angles forest to the Rock Store and back.. I thought I was fast until some group of kids would go blowing by me like I was standing still I was on my new back then 900 Ninja.. I remember I think it was Boquet Canyon ?. Rode that a bunch of times..
Joe you live only once so go for the gusto.. Some guys think we are nuts racing in a group o 5-10 kart pack at 110+mph |
Oh yeah. Bouquet Canyon. I grew up 5 miles from the upper entry to the Canyon and rocked it with a home built twin turbo Capri. That car surprised some expensive hardware that would come up from LA on weekends. I had a bit of a local advantage, but it was still fun for a country boy to smoke a loafer wearing rich guy in a 911. I dated a hot chick in Culver City and could make the drive door to door in 48 minutes. If you know the area, then you know just how much of a moron I was. It wasn't any smarter then than it would be now, but they were different times. I never really expected to live past 25 growing up. I'm in the bonus round now. And the hot chick even married me! Who was the dumb one? |
You, for getting married. |
Well, she put up with 10 years of me trying to kill myself boat racing, 20 years of ups and downs in the kart industry, and even a brief stint of pit bike mx racing a couple years ago with no more than a raised eyebrow. In the meantime I got hot meals and good luvn every night. Poke fun, but when you fade off to sleep with a cramp in your right arm and a soppy tissue on the nightstand, I have a full belly and the Missus taking care of the little guy while I watch the Phoenix Supercross eating a bowl of ice cream. |
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TJ Koyen
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 1413
Location: United States, Wisconsin, Sun Prairie
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Pappas wrote: | | Chris Livengood wrote: | | Tim Pappas wrote: | | Jeff DeMello wrote: | Chris. I wish I could have ridden that good to do what you did.. I lived in Lancaster Ca for a year in 1986 -7 and I would start in Palmdale go thru angles forest to the Rock Store and back.. I thought I was fast until some group of kids would go blowing by me like I was standing still I was on my new back then 900 Ninja.. I remember I think it was Boquet Canyon ?. Rode that a bunch of times..
Joe you live only once so go for the gusto.. Some guys think we are nuts racing in a group o 5-10 kart pack at 110+mph |
Oh yeah. Bouquet Canyon. I grew up 5 miles from the upper entry to the Canyon and rocked it with a home built twin turbo Capri. That car surprised some expensive hardware that would come up from LA on weekends. I had a bit of a local advantage, but it was still fun for a country boy to smoke a loafer wearing rich guy in a 911. I dated a hot chick in Culver City and could make the drive door to door in 48 minutes. If you know the area, then you know just how much of a moron I was. It wasn't any smarter then than it would be now, but they were different times. I never really expected to live past 25 growing up. I'm in the bonus round now. And the hot chick even married me! Who was the dumb one? |
You, for getting married. |
Well, she put up with 10 years of me trying to kill myself boat racing, 20 years of ups and downs in the kart industry, and even a brief stint of pit bike mx racing a couple years ago with no more than a raised eyebrow. In the meantime I got hot meals and good luvn every night. Poke fun, but when you fade off to sleep with a cramp in your right arm and a soppy tissue on the nightstand, I have a full belly and the Missus taking care of the little guy while I watch the Phoenix Supercross eating a bowl of ice cream. |
Dang, being married sounds cool.
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