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Eric Gossard
Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 16
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom Barth wrote: | Enzo,
I second the "sucks". It's hard enough to get entries with the economy like it is and the organizers drink the Honda Kool Aid and drive away the KZ's. They're all 125's change the rules and penalize the KZ's but put 'em together.
Why is it that cheep, cheep, cheep always gets the nod?
How in the world can a Honda be designated as a 'pro'  |
Well..... I think if the promotors/opperators had their way, I'm sure that they would have full fields in all of the catagories, and probably make new ones to accomodate everyone. But supply and demand dictate the promoters/owners actions. As far as cheap goes, Nothing in this sport is cheap. Just less expensive. I think insted of acting like they are f1 cars, from time to time we all have to remind ourselves that they are " karts". If we change the rules so we can go faster (Or feel better about the karts that we drive) we kill the sport for everyone. It'll be to expensive for alot of people and for others it still won't be any more than a fast kart, no matter how much we brag about how much money we spend on em. It keeps the playing field more even. |
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Howie Idelson
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1335
Location: United States, California, Pacific Palisades
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Timbo540 ulmen
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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If we change the rules so we can go faster (Or feel better about the karts that we drive) we kill the sport for everyone. It'll be to expensive for alot of people and for others it still won't be any more than a fast kart, no matter how much we brag about how much money we spend on em. It keeps the playing field more even.[/quote]
G1 is a great class, but having now raced both S4 and G1 , the Honda class being as close to fair motors wise as we could hope for! This would never be the case in G1, the first yr I raced G1 I was the first racer in any class to be on track with a Tec Sav motor, I was the only one in G1 in 2009 to have one, it was not even funny how much faster was to any other engine on the track. So to make a rule change to ad weight to a ICC motor is not the answer. The Honda class works because it stays close from top to bottom, this will never be the case in ICC because you can spend as much as you want to get a better motor. This does not make it fair as some dont have the pockets to do this! I love the G1 class and nothing is more fun to drive than a ICC, but that being said the racing in s4 Honda makes up for it as well as the over all cost. Anyone on here who thinks you can run a ICC for the same or even close to the cost of a Honda is simply lying or does not know what they are talking about. I have 2 Maxters that a race motors that I need to sell now and wont get anywhere near what I put into them, I am ok with that as I am in S4 now and its really a fun class and I am supporting the best racing org we have SKUSA. |
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Keith Bridgeman
Joined: 24 Aug 2001
Posts: 1334
Location: United States, Minnesota, Farmington
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Timbo540 ulmen wrote: | | If we change the rules so we can go faster (Or feel better about the karts that we drive) we kill the sport for everyone. It'll be to expensive for alot of people and for others it still won't be any more than a fast kart, no matter how much we brag about how much money we spend on em. It keeps the playing field more even. |
G1 is a great class, but having now raced both S4 and G1 , the Honda class being as close to fair motors wise as we could hope for! This would never be the case in G1, the first yr I raced G1 I was the first racer in any class to be on track with a Tec Sav motor, I was the only one in G1 in 2009 to have one, it was not even funny how much faster was to any other engine on the track. So to make a rule change to ad weight to a ICC motor is not the answer. The Honda class works because it stays close from top to bottom, this will never be the case in ICC because you can spend as much as you want to get a better motor. This does not make it fair as some dont have the pockets to do this! I love the G1 class and nothing is more fun to drive than a ICC, but that being said the racing in s4 Honda makes up for it as well as the over all cost. Anyone on here who thinks you can run a ICC for the same or even close to the cost of a Honda is simply lying or does not know what they are talking about. I have 2 Maxters that a race motors that I need to sell now and wont get anywhere near what I put into them, I am ok with that as I am in S4 now and its really a fun class and I am supporting the best racing org we have SKUSA.[/quote]
I will give you $900 for your Maxters 
There is a fair game in stock motos from the top guys to your average guy to, maybe not a huge amount but its there.
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http://bridgemanbroskarting.blogspot.com/
Merlin / Maxter KZ |
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Timbo540 ulmen
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Keith you just said it perfect, Moto from best to worst is not huge, ICC best to worst is huge though |
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Jeff DeMello
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 2213
Location: United States, Pittsburgh Pa,
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Tom how much for a sav-tech weekend rental at the supernat's.
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Jeff DeMello
Emmick F125 Pavesi |
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Chris Hutchinson
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any particular reason why a Stock KZ Class wouldn’t work here in the U.S? For instance take the KZ engine out of the box bolt onto kart, go racing, the only work allowed would be general maintenance. Then for those who want to get tricked out bad ass F1 type KZ powered engines built by the TecSav’s, JWR, SwedeTech, Darcy, etc, etc then they would be allowed to run in the KZ2 SuperPro class at the SuperNationals, or anywhere else where open shifters are allowed.
Maybe there is a reason why this was never an option, it would be nice to know, if anyone should have the answer? |
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Howie Idelson
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1335
Location: United States, California, Pacific Palisades
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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The Tec-Sav is good but remember A swedetech won the last time G1 ran. I don't think Tec-sav even has a win in G1 ever. You don't need it to win.
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Howie Idelson
howieidelson@mac.com
www.coroflot.com/howieidelson |
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Nick Rango
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Stock KZ class would be awesome! |
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Timbo540 ulmen
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Tec sav won 2 yrs ago, both Energy drivers had them, the Engery driver whowon 3 yrs ago had was extermely fast bbut started way back or he would of won going away
Point is you have to spend money with what ever engine builder you go with, its not just tec sav , as renting a is actually cheaper than buying one and getting it built. This is what makes G1 and even KZ2 uneven for many racers, if you dont have top stuff, good luck! I love the ICC motors dont get me wrong but its not a even playing field and we simply dont get the support pricing wise to make it even close to resonable to race!!
The Honda class is just as much fun I have to admit I was surprised. I had a very expensive Maxter being built for G1, was it going to be the best? I dont know but it would of been very good and better than most, this is what is great about the Honda class this really cant happen
I will say the Tec Sav I had in 09 was as fast as a motors I ever ran, I was passing people out of the draft with no issue, no one had the HP I did in 09, the next yr I rented again and they were so so, they had 33 motors rented in 2010, thats the chance you take renting motors though |
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Keith Bridgeman
Joined: 24 Aug 2001
Posts: 1334
Location: United States, Minnesota, Farmington
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Stock KZ would be a great idea but its to late.
Back in 02 when SKUSA brought in ICC I bought a brand new stock CRS. Sold my Built Trackmagic which was a rocket and was faster first time out on the CRS. It was great right out of the box as they all would be.
I do know that I would not get a stock moto engine that is close to what the top few guys get.
I will say that in this years KZ class. TM, Maxter, IAME, Vortex where all up there which is cool. In the top class there should be variation in makes.
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Merlin / Maxter KZ |
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Howie Idelson
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1335
Location: United States, California, Pacific Palisades
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Keith Bridgeman
Joined: 24 Aug 2001
Posts: 1334
Location: United States, Minnesota, Farmington
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I don't think Tec-Sav normally does Vortex engines, those seem to be more in house.
This year there seemed to be less Tec-Sav engines on the grid. I know Max Verstappens TM's where done by his dad.
I kind of missed having G1 on at the nats this year. Its great to focus on core engines and classes for the tour but I considers the supernationals to be a bit more open. That was missed this year.
Going back two years ago I think S4 had 73 drivers and G1 had 30. This year there was what 64 S4. Thats a 40 entry drop in the Masters level shifter class's.
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Merlin / Maxter KZ |
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Howie Idelson
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1335
Location: United States, California, Pacific Palisades
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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It was great racing too. So many guys from europe and other countries. All really fast and clean drivers. I hope it cam come back.
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Howie Idelson
howieidelson@mac.com
www.coroflot.com/howieidelson |
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Timbo540 ulmen
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| They both were on Tev Sav |
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