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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
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Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: Superkart Wheels |
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Just got first batch of wheels. They are spun Alum, black anodize, nice bead lock grooves.
Should retail for around $160 plus shipping.....
They are 6x5 fronts, and 6x8 rears, 2-1/2" back space front and rear, same as the Edwards/Burris.
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John Michael Dillon
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice!! Are bead locks an option? |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
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Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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If you look close, the beads have a serrated edge, I don't think they will need bead locks, but they can always be added.
CR
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Sam Moss
Joined: 28 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:36 am Post subject: |
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You guys don't run without bead retention  Wets you can possibly get away with but I've seen a few slicks popped over the rim lip and only held in by the screws..
I always run 3 screws inside and outside on all my dry rims. If they're on short circuit rims that use grippy tyres why do the opposite and not run them on a faster kart which much higher corner speeds 
In our regs only rears have to have screws but why risk a tyre coming off the rim for the price of 6 M6 screws per wheel. |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
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Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
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I only ever ran the bead screws on the inside of the rears on the Edwards wheels, never had one come off on a road race. And they are a PIA!!! They always leak, taking in and out to mount tires....
When I ran 125's, I ran Douglas wheels, similar to these wheels, I never ran any bead screws, never had a tire debead on a RR track....
Sam, rules are rules I suppose, if can run without the bead screws here in the states where there isn't a rule for it, then I will, but it's not a problem at all to add them.
CR
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Ian Harrison
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain), Manchester
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Hi Guys
This is my own difinitive requirement for Superkarts running 6" wheels on long/road circuits, as a minimum, irrespective of regulations and applied to both slick and wet tyres.
It is assumed all wheels have "bead retention humps" anyway.
Front Rims 5" (125mm) Wide - no bead retention bolts required.
Front Rims 6" (150mm) Wide - bead retention bolts required front and back.
Tyre widths between 5.0 and 5.5
Rear Rims 8" (150mm) Wide - bead retention bolts required front and back.
Rear Rims 9" (175/180mm) - bead retention bolts required front and back.
Tyre Widths between 7.1 and 8.0
Bead retention bolts will never leak assuming they are the correct item with 'O'-Ring grooves and that the 'O'-rings and threads are in good condition. I prefer the knurled type that are tightened by hand to avoid the possibility of overtightening. Like most things, treat them well and they will give long and reliable service.
Best Regards
Ian 
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Ian Harrison
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2918
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Ian Harrison wrote: | | It is assumed all wheels have "bead retention humps" anyway. |
Never Assume!!!
If you look close at these wheels they don't just have "bumps" they have serrated portions. They have been using this type of wheel on dirt track here in the states for years without an issue.
Again, it's a problem at all to add bead locks to these wheels if you feel the need....
CR
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John Michael Dillon
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Bead locks or not I like those wheels. Are you stocking them? |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
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Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks John, they did come pretty slick... They can ordered black anodize, polished silver, or in powdercoat also.
I'm trying to stock the black anodize, but they are never more than a week or so out from the factory.
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Ian Harrison
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
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Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain), Manchester
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | | Ian Harrison wrote: | | It is assumed all wheels have "bead retention humps" anyway. |
Never Assume!!!
If you look close at these wheels they don't just have "bumps" they have serrated portions. They have been using this type of wheel on dirt track here in the states for years without an issue.
Again, it's a problem at all to add bead locks to these wheels if you feel the need....
CR |
So what you are saying, Chris, is that reference to the wheels shown, my assumption is correct? They do have "bead retention humps"
Just thought I'd clarify that for those you might have confused 
and of course my opinion still stands.
They are indeed a nice looking rim. You should stock bead retainers and the little combined drill/tap that makes them so easy to fit when used in a battery drill.
Just a few quick questions? . . . .
Are the holes for the wheels studs round?
What thickness is the mounting flange?
What weight is a 6 x 5 front and a 6 x 8 rear?
What thickness is the ledge were you would fit bead retainers?
Thanks in advance
Ian
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Ian Harrison
Viper Racing UK
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2918
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Ian Harrison wrote: |
So what you are saying, Chris, is that reference to the wheels shown, my assumption is correct? They do have "bead retention humps"
Just thought I'd clarify that for those you might have confused
and of course my opinion still stands.
Best Regards
Ian |
No, that's not what I'm saying, I have no idea what "bead retention humps" are!!! Technology has moved forward, rim designs and their bead retention systems have improved over the years.. They use this type of retention on a 8" wide dirt slick put on a 10" wide rim, without any issues. I would also argue that with the jolting that happens with a kart sliding through a dirt track corner, they're probably loaded more than a superkart.
And opinions are like and you're entitle to yours..... 
CR
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Last edited by Chris Reinhardt on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2918
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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Ken Olson
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: United States, Washington, Monroe
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Just to clarify.. 8" tires on 10" rims..
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
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Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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Ian Harrison
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain), Manchester
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | | I have no idea |
OK Chris, I understand that . . . . . and you do seem to confuse dirt use with Superkart road circuit use.
I would be interested to hear detail about these developments in bead retention technology of which I am unaware? Or perhaps there is an odour of bovine excrement in the air , but in the meantime, I'll pass on some facts.
Two things that can cause Superkart tyres to de-seat from the rim (beside accident) are:
1. Deflation caused by puncture, structural failure, etc.
In this case the tyre is easily pulled over the bead retention hump (or ledge if you prefer), in the same way that it does when you dismount a tyre. Bead locking screws retain the tyre bead between the hump and the edge of the rim, to help stability and control whilst bringing the kart to a stop.
2. High speed centrifugal force.
At speeds between say 100 - 150 mph a Superkart tyre grows rapidly in diameter (the centrifugal force increases with the square of the speed). This growth in diameter pulls inwards on the sidewall of the tyre (obviously!), especially in the case of the rim being wider than the tyre, and this can pull the tyre bead over the hump causing rapid deflation and loss of control. This is exacibated when combined with high speed cornering forces. Bead locking screws retain the tyre bead between the hump and rim edge.
Rim edge serrations have little to no effect in this situation as the tyre bead is in very light contact (if any) with the rim inner edge. They are an aid to preventing tyre slip at low speeds and not a safety feature in relation to detachment of the tyre from the rim.
Regards your statements (OK probably, you say!!) Superkart vs dirt, there is absolutely no parrallel to be drawn. Much lower speeds, lower wheel rpms, giving hugely lower centrifugal force and hugely lower lateral forces (unless you hit something ).
Here is a typical Superkart wheel, clearly showing the bead area (between the red and blue lines) and the bead retention humps (just inboard of the red lines).
This image shows a 6 x8 and a 6 x 5 in my recommended configuration and as complient with CIK Superkart regulations. It is also clear to see the wheel nut pockets which help prevent the wheel from "fridging" against the hub and decreasing the possibility of stud hole wear.
All the above points are general with respect to any Superkart rim that a competitor may consider.
Specific to the rims you picture, the considerations regarding the questions I asked (which I see you didn't answer thus far) would be as follows:
Are the holes for the wheels studs round?
I have seen similar style wheels that have elongated holes to cater for differing PCD's. This means that the plain portion of the wheel stud bears against a single point on the rim and wear can be quite rapid.
What thickness is the mounting flange?
Competitors need to be careful that the plain portion of their wheels studs is short enough to allow the wheel nuts to clamp up totally. If a nut bottoms out before it clamps the wheel, rapid failure ensues. Also a narrower mounting flange leads to higher shear loads on the stud and the possibility of accelerated wear.
What weight is a 6 x 5 front and a 6 x 8 rear?
Any reduction in weight is welcomed as long as the wheel is strong enough for the job in hand
What thickness is the ledge were you would fit bead retainers?
You need to be sure that you can install bead retention screws safely be that by choice or regulation.
Best Regards
Ian
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Ian Harrison
Viper Racing UK
www.viper-racinguk.co.uk
sales@viper-racinguk.co.uk
+44 7984 225 564
+44 161 343 2009
Championship winning Superkart race team 1997-2012 |
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