Why didn't Rotary ever catch on?

Jim McMahon · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:39 am Post subject:

Initial purchase cost is too high for a motor concept that most people, including motor builders are not familiar with and I think the initial teething problems gave it a bad rep.

I think the rotary concept is a perfect match for karting, it provides a lightweight, mechanically simple package that makes good power with potentially less emissions than an equivalent two stroke.

Problem is that I don't think anybody really knows how they will hold up when you get really competitive with them and therefore how expensive it will really become when you start to lean on them. Folks will will be looking for that extra 'nth of power with trick apex seals and whatever other wankel whackery people can come up with to find extra power.
You could of course offer a sealing program, but that adds cost.
Tech would be a nightmare as a lot of people don't understand the wankel motor. parity is another question, I don't know how close the packages are to each other from the factory.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it succeed but I think the odds are stacked against it. Many motor builders will be opposed to it as it may threaten their livelihood. It takes away from their knowledge base for a start before you start debating how it might affect their income where rebuilds are concerned.
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Paul Makarucha · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:56 am Post subject:

John Matthews · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:17 am Post subject:

They are running them in UAS so there's a little info on how they hold up at least in the dirt oval world. Also, there are more people on the dirt side willing to get 5K into a motor since they're running unlimited class and they can do whatever they want with modifications. If sprint racers would embrace an unlimited/open class on a regional or national level you might see this package coming up but it's hard to see that happening with the popularity of shifters and TaG.

It won't be the engine builders that keep it from coming up though, importers and manufacturers have way more power over the orgs than we do.....

What I think you'll most likely see is them continuing to be used by the recreational guy who wants gobs of power but doesn't want to shift. You might get pockets where enough of these guys are around to start a local series. There are lots of other great engine packages out there that also haven't gained traction, to bring something new into the market you really need a compelling value proposition as well as juice for the orgs. In reality 100cc piston port makes sense for the vast majority of kart applications, otherwise people wouldn't still be running KT100 and K71/HPV/KPV.

Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

Jeff DeMello · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:12 am Post subject:

For $6100.00 I can buy a new coyote 5.0 412hp ford engine from summit..

Wonder how that would fit on my kart Shocked

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Brian Degulis · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:57 am Post subject:

I can't see it being soley a cost problem. An ICC shifter new is around 5K? And it needs work every 10 hours or so? The rotary is 7K and suposidly goes 50 hours before needing work. The math doesn't add up for it to be a cost problem alone. It's my understanding they caught on in Europe mostly because of lower emissions.

Brian

Chris Hurst · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject:

Greg Wright · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject:

Lower operating cost don't really count if the customer can't afford to buy it in the first place.
That seems to be something that many seem to lose track of.
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Justin Martin · Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Posts: 331

Greg, I do agree. However At the same time I surely think the inital cost would come down considerably if they are more widely used. If there was a larger and more accepting market for it, the price would surely come down.

I think 3K is very resonable, and doable if this engine were more widely used, more buyers, more classes, etc.

The beauty of economics is that price comes down the more are sold...

joseph hollinger · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject:

Ken Schilling · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 1351

[quote="joseph hollinger"]

joseph hollinger · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject:

Anyone who has purchased karting gear should probably be able to conclude that the law of supply and demand are not effective in controlling retail prices. And if you don't understand that, just go out and price a new CRG or similar chassis. Those prices have done nothing but go up for years in spite of the fact that the market has been flat to down for many of those years.
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Jim McMahon · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject:

Brian G. Wilson · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject:

I disagree, I have never been to a track that has not allowed me to race with the shifters if I chose. However, I do realize that if I went to something larger like the FWT or SuperNats they would not allow me to run......I play on the local/club level and do more track days. If I do run a race, it is understood that I will be racing for fun and no points will be awarded and I will not alter the points awarded to others. For example, if I finished 2nd, the person in third place would get the 2nd place points and I would just have the fun of running. For some this is not enough, but for me it suits my style and I have fun.
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Brian Degulis · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject:

Chris Hurst · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: