Honda CR125 - What else for I need to make it run?

[Stu Hayner]

Delete (for the lack of interest)
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Remember......it's not always the best arrow...but more importantly the best Indian.

[Cesar Rull]

^ yeah not to be mean but you've taken this thread way out of what is was supposed to be originally. Maybe a mod can clean it.

[Tim Salvino]

[Brian Degulis]

If it gets political it's off course right now it's exactly the way it should be a conversation.

Like so many recreational items for a percentage it's an impluse buy that turns out to be not such a good idea. On the plus side low priced "almost new" packages make it easier for people that want to get into it. Some will stick with it.


Brian

[Cesar Rull]

not sure what's worse, the price tag of an engine package or the rejection and underestimation.

I understand your concerns, I really do. This is not the thread for it. This thread was to document what it takes to have a Cr125 installed and "runnable" on a kart.

Really please give it up already ! It's almost as if the shifter drivers think they are an elite breed. Give me a freaking break!! Everything can be learned!

I know I will crash, haven't you all? ok so then what is the problem ?!

[Cesar Rull]

[Brian Degulis]

My background is boats. I started out working on tugs became a licensed captain and today I have a company that builds tugs. I've been doing it all my life. I also have a large recreational boat I've had several over the years and I'm on some of the yacht forums. The same thing comes up there. You'll see a new guy that wants to buy a large boat. The advice is the same. You shouldn't start out with a 60' boat that weighs 45 tons or go from a 20' runabout into a large heavy boat.

I've noticed that the guys that get on a forum identify themselves as a novice and ask questions normally do OK even when they take the leap right into a large boat. The guys that never join a forum and never ask a question the ones that just show up one day as the proud new owner are the ones that get in trouble.


Brian

[John Matthews]

Definitely agree with Brian that people who take the time to inform themselves about what they're in for generally do better than those who do not.

I've been involved in internet discussions since the days of usenet so I've seen a lot of marginal advice handed out by "experts" and a lot of great advice given by novices. There are a few simple facts here though.

In general, when somebody comes on the tech section and has a straightforward question such as "how do I do this thing" it gets answered pretty quickly and the thread goes away. The threads I see going on and on are the ones where somebody asks a broad question that can't be answered easily, or where they get the answer and keep fishing for a different answer they like better.

Since this isn't something like "please explain the modulus of elasticity of the different types of steel" this question could have been easily answered if the OP had taken the "correct" answer which is pretty much just buy a used engine package someone has already run on a kart. Honestly, there's no way a novice is going to build their own shifter motor package and save money. It just won't happen, there are too many differences between karts and bikes. I've taken apart several attempts at this and I can tell you firsthand it can get very, very ugly.

On this thread, like others thread Cesar has been on that I've posted to the "problem" is he doesn't like the answers experienced people are giving him. Now he's asking for moderators to "clean up" the thread???? Usually that only happens here when people are slanderous or belligerent, not because something gets "off-topic".

What I wonder is has anyone on here actually seen Cesar at his local track? There's plenty of room for people to discuss the "correct" way for novices to start in this hobby but I think pretty much everyone agrees that you need to go to the track. Better yet, has Cesar bothered to drive any of the kart packages out there other than the indoor rentals?

The analogy to boating is pretty close in a lot of respects. I was involved in sailing for quite a few years then got out of it for ~20yrs. Now I live in a place where we have two harbors and nearly endless boating opportunities in season. I've been putting hours on my 20' runabout and dreaming of the day I can move up to a bigger boat. But, I realize doing the wrong thing can kill you (just like racing) so I've taken some USPS courses and go out with more experienced skippers whenever I can. The big difference though is when you get in trouble on the water you can call the US Coast Guard for help and if you have one of the fancy radios like I have you can even just press a button and they will know exactly where you are.

In karting you have to depend on your local shops, tracks, and others who can actually see where you need help and offer it. No amount of written explanation can show you where the apex is on your track, you have to experience it firsthand.

So, as someone that's tried to service a few folks like this I highly doubt his local shop is trying to "screw" (<slander????) him. They're probably just giving him answers he doesn't like. For a while there I was starting to think Cesar was just another alias for someone who's known to come on here and stir up trouble but now I think he's just someone who needs assistance if he's ever going to be successful in this hobby. If someone here could take him under their wing (someone who races at a track near him). And show him all the different things he's asking about (because just like an apex it's a lot easier to see how a kart should be set-up than to explain it). Maybe he'll come on in a few months and report his progress with whatever kart he ends up driving.

JMHO,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

[Cesar Rull]

John really, its crazy. They saw me as the new person and wanted to sell me stuff one was ever going to buy. So I just wanted to inform myself. I appreciate the help but please don't tell me I am not qualifies to drive a shifter because what is what I want to drive period. So help me success in what I want rather than turn me off.

When I asked a question about what it takes to make a CR into a kart engine and someone post a link to the swedetech package they not contributing to anything. They are basically saying here you go and shut up!.

I asked my local shop to let me try other cars, and they told me no, because they are god and I should buy what they want to sell me !. Give me a break!

I did ask them to try a TAG.. they were like no too fast for you to try. You need a Iame EzKart. We are selling this one for 5K. Please...! I am up 6K soon and I will have a shifter with a brand new CR99. All in part because of those who have taken the time to help me.

John, I would like to think I fall into the category of people who inform themselves. I was reading some thread about checking for a bent frame. Guess what I just took some measurements of my frame and I am happy to say it seems straight regardless of being scratched on the bottom !! Again thanks to those who post their insight and help on the boards. I really cannot wait to give back to this community but when you are new, its a learning process.

[Matt Dixon]

[Brian Degulis]

I really think there are no absolute correct answers here it's just not that black and white. I was into Karts 35 years ago and the way things have changed that experience counts for nothing. My kid took an interest and when I got back around it again I got bit by the bug. I went up to Anderson and for $100 they give you a quick familiarization and 3 15 minute sessions in a TAG kart and it was a blast and with a little advice I did fine. Everyone advised me to get a TAG kart. That's good advice it's the best starting point. But everyone is different and I knew I'd get bored with TAG pretty quickly. Now I'm not saying I would master TAG quickly only that I'd be bored with it.

I visited tracks and met people that started in shifter some just used them recreationally some raced. If you go to a tack and talk to a shifter guy and tell him your new to this and want to get a shifter his first words will be don't. That's probably because he's seen that happen and seen that person jump into a crowded practice session or race and put everyone at risk. That's exactly what you will do if you approach it that way. It looks easy but it's not. My point is if you approach it correctly and practice when the track is not busy and understand that it will take a long time to learn this then starting at shifter is OK. The most important thing is that you enjoy it without putting others at risk.


Brian

[joseph hollinger]

[John Matthews]

Cesar,

I'm not even going to try telling you what to do

I've been in the position of the shop you're panning and if they're trying to sell you an Easykart, from what I know of you (only what you've posted here) I think I would agree with them totally. I doubt seriously that they're just trying to get rid of excess inventory. Birel made the Easykart specifically for people like you so they wouldn't have to wonder if they were getting quality equipment or spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to put a package together. They even make a shifter version for people like you that won't be persuaded otherwise. http://www.easykart-usa.com/products.html
Easykart didn't really catch on in the US but I can assure you that Juan Pablo Montoya definitely knows a little about about driving and driver development. http://www.easykartinternational.com/why.htm IMHO, the Easykart program is simpler, less expensive and smarter than Rotax and could have put a lot more drivers on track in America if it really had been given a chance. They are very fast and can be competitive with the best TaG packages out there, my drivers proved it two years in a row....

As for the shop not letting you drive their karts I really can't speak to that except to say that I drove lots of customers away by giving test drives in the Easykart. The reality was that it was way too much power for most of the folks running at our local indoor track where my shop was. They would go out on the "big" track and come back white knuckled and sweating. Sure they would play it off and say it was great but they never did transition to outdoor karting even though this was in the mid 2000's when everyone was trading fake home equity for expensive toys. Eventually I put a World Formula on a kart and that made a much better demo ride.

If anyone wants to try driving different karts there are tracks that rent them, and schools where you can learn how to drive. There are also lots of folks wanting to sell used equipment as well as people at the track that are just plain nice and will help just about anybody out. So, if you've only driven indoor rental karts then I don't think you've tried very hard to drive anything else. There's a big difference between indoor rentals and a 125cc TaG or Stock Moto, ask anyone who's driven both.

Again, I don't know you or anything about your mechanical ability. But, converting a bike engine over to a reliable kart motor takes some doing. Not that it can't be done by a total beginner but experience tells me someone starting from scratch is going to have a lot to learn before completing such a project. It's not fair to expect people who have spent years learning these things to explain them to you on an internet forum in a few sentences. I'm sure whatever you do for a living you had to learn and practice for a while before you were good at it, the folks at Swedetech are very good at what they do and their track record working with novices and pro's alike speaks for itself.

So, again I'm not going to tell you that you're not qualified to drive a shifter. In fact I never did, only the officials at the track you plan to run at can make that call. I just suggested like I do for all new drivers that starting out in a low powered kart is the smart way to go. If you don't agree with me that's OK, I don't live anywhere near you and probably won't ever have the pleasure of being on track with you so I won't have to worry about looking in my mirrors

Please let us know how it works out for you.

Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

[Cesar Rull]

You do want mirrors secretly don't you ?

[John Matthews]