Upcoming WKA 2013 changes to Juniors and Seniors can class

Dan Schlosser · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:19 am Post subject:

Apples/Oranges John. Yamaha to Yamaha to Yamaha to Yamaha. Not Komet to Yamaha to ???? You are picking and choosing to suit your opinion.

Frankly the Komet, particularly the Sportsman, is pretty irrelevant. They are rarely raced locally (it at all), have a handful regionally and one of the very lightest turnouts nationally of any class. On the flipside the Yamaha from top to bottom is raced heavily locally, regionally and nationally and is the backbone of most every track, club and series.

The rules for the Yamaha ladder don't have any bearing on the other classes and the reverse is accurate as well.

John Horn 33 · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:43 am Post subject:

But Dan...the rules for the JUNIOR classes do have a bearing on ALL of the junior classes run at the national level. We are going to be required to put the restrictor on the yamaha and the komet engines, so they are all in the same penalty box so to speak.
I agree that the komet is run very little locally especially in the sportsman ranks, but what I am mainly speaking of are the national runners. So, when the national champion from sportsman komet moves up to juniors, and goes slower in the yamaha junior than he did last year in the komet junior, what do you think that kid is going to do? We are all racers, all competitive as hell, and we all "WANNA GO FAST" There is noone that I have talked to that wants to go slower, and if there is someone that wants to go slower in the junior ranks please let me know..if there is an overwhelming response from junior drivers or parents that want to slow down...i will shut up, move on up to seniors and never mention this again.

Andy Seesemann · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject:

John Horn 33 · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject:

Andy no offense but the balance of your post refers to seniors going faster, go for it, I have no complaints about that bolt on turbos if you want I don't really care. Please stay on topic of slowing the juniors. I am pretty involved in karting at the national level and the club level and I have never heard anyone talking about this huge problem of the juniors needing to be slowed down. Please enlighten me as to who is wanting them slowed down?
I know that several local tracks are not switching over to the restrict or, so what is the big picture impact on karting going to be? Aren't we risking none of the local people moving up to the national level?
Also Andy I have stated previously that I am speaking of wka. Not the other series out there. I would think that a junior tag is a good bit faster than any Yamaha junior already so why even discuss them?

And trust me Andy I am thinking with my head.

Dan Schlosser · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject:

So they should base the rules for the entire Yamaha ladder on the 13 kids that ran at least 5 races at Nationals last year:

http://www.worldkarting.com/index.php/series/george-kugler-bridgestone-manufacturers-cup-series/man-cup-points/161-komet-sportsman

Shocked

Again John, this isn't about Juniors, it is about the ladder. To you it is about Juniors - because that is what it is in your trailer.

And you are right - some tracks/clubs may not implement all or any of the change for 2013. That doesn't make the long term impact/goal of the rules change wrong.

John Horn 33 · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject:

All I have left to say is that my inbox is still empty

patrick slattery · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject:

Dan I think the issue is sportsman vs Jr's , not hpv to yamaha IMHO.

Wasn't the purpose, to not have the jr to be faster than the Sr's. If what John says is true the sportsman are in some cases, would be faster than the Jrs. Exactly the same issues they are trying to fix where the lower age group would be faster than the older one.

SO SHOULD WE NOW PUT A RESTRICTOR ON THE SPORTSMAN CLASS TO GET A BIGGER SPREAD BETWEEN SPORTSMAN AND JR'S IN SPEED?

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Dan Schlosser · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject:

Patrick, the Sportsman Yamaha will not be faster than the Junior Yamaha. The testing showed less than a 1 second difference in the Junior at New Castle. For a comparison here is WKA Man Cup Qualifying from this year on Saturday:

Junior Yamaha:
1 29 Kyle Kirkwood 1:10.310 3 51.202 3
Komet Sportsman:
1 2 Zach Holden 1:12.492 3 49.661 3
Junior Sportsman:
1 91 Neil Verhagen 1:14.754 3 48.158 3

So we have a 2+ second spread from Junior Yamaha to Komet Sportsman and almost 4.5 second spread from Junior Yamaha to Yamaha Sportsman.

So no, the Junior will not be slower than the Sportsman if you lose even a full second so it won't be slower than either Sportsman class.

And yes, John was stating the Komet Sportsman would be faster than the Junior Yamaha. Because that was the only case that would come even close to supporting his argument, although that appears to be wrong as well. Time will tell of course - it was only one test.

For the record, I'm not picking a fight with John. I think he is a great guy who is very passionate about the sport. I just have an issue with ignoring facts to whip up a firestorm on a forum. A little research often will dispel a lot of hype though.

Mark Erpelding · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: Can

This is all " Smoke and mirrors" Tell the truth WKA!!! U really think we are that stupid!!!
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John Horn 33 · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:55 am Post subject:

I have to agree totally with Tim. Wka stated a junior class ladder not a Yamaha ladder, and yes I am picking komet sportsman versus Yamaha junior because the way I read it wka is trying to develop a system in which the younger kids go slower than the older. I bet if they introduce a junior tag class and it is faster than Yamaha junior the Yamaha class would die....just like it has in the senior ranks. If that is the ultimate goal so be it but tell us so we can prepare.
And yes Gary we will be at Daytona we look forward to it every year and use it as a vacation....if they tell us we have to push the kids because motors aren't allowed we will be there.....we are racers.

I am not sure why it does seem that the people who have no kid in juniors are the ones fighting so hard for this?

Dan do you plan on requiring the restrict or at your track next year?

I will be testing a restrict or at Camden tomorrow and I will let you know the results. My kid is a junior class champ there so consistency should not be a problem for her...I think we have over a million laps there lol

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John Horn 33 · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:45 am Post subject:

Gary. You come on. I take you for smarter than that. When you have people that ACTUALLY DO RUN JUNIORS AND RACE KARTS telling you that they have an issue with a change then why wouldn't you listen?