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Cesar Rull
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 317
Location: United States, Florida, Pembroke Pines
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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: |
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All the KZ ICC motors are the same in terms of specs and power? maybe +/- one of two hp? I ask becase of the three different brands I have seen: TM, paversi and maxtor.
I was also told each manufacturer uses their own pipe, every one used the same fuel pump and carb - (standard items) ? The only thing user change is the airbox and silencer. How true is this? |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2933
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| Tom Barth wrote: |
I would suggest that you check the web for up to date info on KZ kart engines. I provide service info on my site. Many other sites offer tips. There are homologation specs, parts lists and tuning tips available. But best of all the KZ will be in production today and tomorrow and the next day. Not so, dirt bike engine, meaning no service upgrades, decaying knowledge base. |
So that means the KZ information is constantly changing? And there's nothing in print? What a warm and fuzzy feeling that is.... Why would you need service upgrades if it was built correctly the first time?
BTW I would count on one of the largest vehicle manufactures to have parts availability long after TM corp has gone belly up....
Keep shoveling it...... 
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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Randy Pierson
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 232
Location: United States, Minnesota, Avon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Honda Kool-aid.....mmmm mmmmm mmmm mmmmm mmmmm so good.... |
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Jim McMahon
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 2688
Location: United States, St. Paul,
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Cesar Rull wrote: | All the KZ ICC motors are the same in terms of specs and power? maybe +/- one of two hp? I ask becase of the three different brands I have seen: TM, paversi and maxtor.
I was also told each manufacturer uses their own pipe, every one used the same fuel pump and carb - (standard items) ? The only thing user change is the airbox and silencer. How true is this? |
Just as I thought the Spec Moto Propaganda machine has quietened down, its back again......anyway, I digress...
There's reasonable parity across the board with the KZ motors. Best thing to do would be get a motor that has been proven in the series/tracks that your run. Its Pavesi and Maxter by the way, Maxtor make hard drives (well did). Pavesi's gear ratios arent too good for sprint, but are just the ticket for road racing. Other brands to look at are Vortex and TM.
At the end of the day though, the biggest peformance differences are due to setup, driving and tuning, no matter what you decide to run.
I will say though, I agree with others that jumping right into a shifter with no previous racing experience means the odds are stacked against you. there's a reason F1 drivers drive these things to stay sharp. They are violent. You might well be able to "handle" it as thats merely a matter of right foot control, but its more about developing your driving technique. The power/torque of a shifter makes it all to easy to have way too much fun developing bad habits. Each to their own, but, if you are looking to become a quick driver, starting with a 125cc shifter may not be the best course of action. An 80 would be a better idea. TaG like speeds with shifter kicks. Cheap to buy as well.
Also, as someone pointed out you need to verify if the tracks you plan running have a shifter (or even an open/outlaw) class.
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Live in the midwest and have a TaG, Shifter, KPV, KT100, Animal\LO206, enduro or superkart?
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Jim McMahon
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 2688
Location: United States, St. Paul,
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joseph hollinger
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 9485
Location: United States, California, san francisco
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Tom Barth wrote: |
Greg, never been to a track yet that didn't have class for the KZ shifter. Of course there must be a shifter race scheduled for the track. Never went to track that offered dirt bike only. |
Maybe you haven't been to many tracks. I'm sure there are places where there are lots of euro motors. But out here you'd be racing against yourself if they even let you go out.
And that's the point Tom. This guy is asking for advice. Not a political or religious diatribe. The single best thing you could have told him, and what you should have told him, would be to go and buy the motor that is the most common in his area.
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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill.
Last edited by joseph hollinger on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Jim McMahon
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 2688
Location: United States, St. Paul,
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: |
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On the pipes thing, yes each KZ motor has its own pipe that is homologated with it. Having said that, there is physical interchangeability across them, it just wont be technically legal. Depends on the org you run and how nitpicky they want to be. All KZ\ICC motors run the Dell'orto VHSH30 carb. There are no other carb choices for the KZ motors that are legal.
The CR125s mostly run a Mikuni or Keihn 38mm with a modification to remove the floats called a pumparound. There are a couple of different models to choose from as well as certain pipes that are allowed.
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Live in the midwest and have a TaG, Shifter, KPV, KT100, Animal\LO206, enduro or superkart?
Click here to join the karting festival at Blackhawk, IL June 1st-2nd. |
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Keith Bridgeman
Joined: 24 Aug 2001
Posts: 1335
Location: United States, Minnesota, Farmington
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | | Tom Barth wrote: |
I would suggest that you check the web for up to date info on KZ kart engines. I provide service info on my site. Many other sites offer tips. There are homologation specs, parts lists and tuning tips available. But best of all the KZ will be in production today and tomorrow and the next day. Not so, dirt bike engine, meaning no service upgrades, decaying knowledge base. |
So that means the KZ information is constantly changing? And there's nothing in print? What a warm and fuzzy feeling that is.... Why would you need service upgrades if it was built correctly the first time?
BTW I would count on one of the largest vehicle manufactures to have parts availability long after TM corp has gone belly up....
Keep shoveling it......
CR |
Chris can you sell me one of those $900 2001 cylinders? I also want you to hand pick through about 20 CR engine kits to find the best one. Let me know what the price is.
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Merlin / Maxter KZ |
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Jimmy McNeil
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1467
Location: United States, California, visalia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: |
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When I was running icc I recall spending $1000 for a cylinder that dyno'd a little better.
I also remember having to replace my clutch every two or three starts at the super Nats a few years ago. I think the clutches were around $85.
You also have to consider that some icc's have better top end and some have better bottom end. Some won't be as competitive on certain tracks than others. It sucks showing up to a track and realising you don't have a shot at the win because you don't have the rite icc for that track.
And while I'm at it, nothing better than forking out 6 to 8k for an icc only to find out the next year that a new model has come out and yours is obsolete.
The Honda package stays the same each year and is the same for everyone at each track.
If you have a good icc class at your local track, and you have the $$$ to spen, then go icc. It is a clean package and is fun to drive.
If you plan on racing nationals you better buy a Honda. No national series are running icc's. |
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Randy Pierson
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 232
Location: United States, Minnesota, Avon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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But Jimmy,
What you say isn't entirely true.
Back in the day, you remember those, when stock moto was rather new we all ran the R2 pipe. Those days were great. The pipe limitied the hp so no matter what cylinder you had, '97,'99 etc it was all about the same.
Then things changed. First we could run the T3 RCE, then the R4 RLV, but wait...then we could run '01 cylinders and heads...opps but wait then we could run '01 reeds and cages, ohh but there's more. Then we could run any reed, then the PWM or the PWK...gotta have both you know..to test! But wait there is more...how about the new fuel system from Swedetech...but wait now SRS has a fuel system...oh no...now we have to run a timing plate ...there goes all my testing....
I could go on...
Point is, like anything in karting, it never truely stops. Which is why I counter the "Honda is the holy grail" crowd. It never truely stops and to keep up with the developement from when I had my first stock moto 7 years ago, all the "upgrades" cost more than the motor.
So.....when touting ones motor, the true story needs to be told, not just what the mainstream is using as talking points.
See you in a month and a half..tell Mike to have lot's of Corona for me to steal from him! |
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Enzo Iadevaia
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 198
Location: United States, New York, Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: |
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randy I agree...
With racing it nevers ends. People will always look for more power no matter what it costs..
I ran a moto years ago and now run a KZ. I would never go back to a moto again. KZ is better in every dept in my book. And It's even more reliable. Cost is about the same. KZ to me is even easier to work on as well..
But this Moto vs KZ arguments will never end.. |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2933
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Randy Pierson wrote: |
Point is, like anything in karting, it never truely stops. Which is why I counter the "Honda is the holy grail" crowd. It never truely stops and to keep up with the developement from when I had my first stock moto 7 years ago, all the "upgrades" cost more than the motor. |
That's because the motor only cost $2000, and you didn't throw the whole motor in the trash like what was happening in the SKUSA Pro tour when they were running the spaghetti motor of the week..... And nothing has changed for the bottom ends, everything is top end, pipe, or fuel system...
The real truth is that nobody is developing ICC motors anymore because there isn't a pro class for them anymore here in the states, and that's why they run about the same. Kinda like the MOD Honda's that are now reliable, because nobody is leaning on them, because there isn't much competition...
So I guess the real truth also is that there's more development being done on non production dirt bike Rube Goldberg motors than there is on purpose built thoroughbreds...
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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jeff grose
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1249
Location: United States, Florida, cocoa
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Cesar
Here's an example of KZ1 racing in Europe, World Cup
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT061M4eUyE&feature=related
_________________
jlgracing
#31 Gillard/PDBAmerica
IAME Leopards by P1 Engines
Tag Sr./FKCS/WKA
Driver: Jesse Grose
Remember: "No matter where you go,there you are" |
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Cesar Rull
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 317
Location: United States, Florida, Pembroke Pines
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the responses.
(Why do drivers often times put their arms out of the kart as if trying to touch the sides of the kart? I have seen that very often. Does it mean anything?) |
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Randy Pierson
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 232
Location: United States, Minnesota, Avon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Chris...you are kinda "out there".
Spending $7K for a bike motor makes it EXACTLY like any other karting motor becomes. Too expensive!
And I know of just such an expence that happened this week so someone could go to the Supernats. From the most popular builder..
When stock moto first started they were making 33hp with the R2. Now the needle is pushing 40hp almost. The costs have followed the power increase.
The whole point is the originator of this thread should run what he wants and what is popular in his area. The "spec moto is cheaper" theory should be kept where it belongs..Fantasy Island.
If it was all so great why was there never more than 3 stock motos in the CES series this summer but Mod/ICC grids that were in excess of 30+ every weekend. There is your million dollar question. And the answer is just like the thread originator asked...what is popular is HIS area. |
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