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Mike Goebel
Joined: 28 Jul 2001
Posts: 5765
Location: United States, California, Winnetka
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 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Martin wrote: | | Well I never intended to start a debate about it. But I know for a fact that for about $200-$250 I can make a kart stand just as nice as that stand that cost $1,200...... |
NOPE!! you can't
Mike G.
P.S. what are you charging per hour -$12.50 
Mike G.
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Justin Martin
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Edit....
Last edited by Justin Martin on Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Justin Martin
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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edited
Last edited by Justin Martin on Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Nick Weil
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1795
Location: United States, Florida, Orlando, FL US of A
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at Paul's picture, it seems to me all he did was copy the hard work and ingenuity of the good people at Kart-Lift.
Justin, I am going to guess your under 25 and/or have never actually operated a business, where you WRITE out checks to people that work for you, who then take those checks home to feed their families?
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Nick Weil
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Justin Martin
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Look guys. I never once said I am going to sell cheaper stands, nor am I intending to undercut anyone!
Simply posted ASKING to see other homebuilt stands, and how everyone went about it.
This was never intended for a current stand manufacturer to get involved and tell us how its impossible.
As mentioned, having experience in the fab world building tube chassis desert trucks, I feel very comfortable saying I can build the same quality, if not better, stand for around $250 in materials. Never did I mention selling them. And quite frankly there is nothing fancy about their design. Nothing but square and straight cures. It's not like they worked with round tubing nothing it at every joint etc. From a fab'ing perspective their design is simple, and a couple hours worth of work. Nothing to lose your breathe over by any means.
Either way, for those who just enjoy thread bashing, let's please leave it open for the intended HOMEBUILT purpose, and let us share ideas and techniques. |
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Mike Goebel
Joined: 28 Jul 2001
Posts: 5765
Location: United States, California, Winnetka
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:43 am Post subject: |
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I have chosen to go the minimalistic route with my design. I figured if 3 wheels reduces cost then having only one wheel will have the most dramatic impact on cost reduction.
Mike G.
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Tim Koyen
Advertiser
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 1556
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Goebel wrote: | I have chosen to go the minimalistic route with my design. I figured if 3 wheels reduces cost then having only one wheel will have the most dramatic impact on cost reduction.
Mike G. |
Would you be willing to sell the rights to this design? I see a big market with clowns, mimes, and other fans of one wheel transportation.
Can you make another smaller version to go with it for carrying your starter and tools?
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High Quality American Made kart stands. Available direct to you or through one of our many dealers.
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Justin Martin
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Well you all sure are a superb and helpful group of gentlemen......
Some of us barely afford the hobby as is and can't dump close to 1k into a stand.... So people like myself have to resort to our skills. I will still be building my own stand. And I still believe I can build one much cheaper. Granted I am not selling them or trying to employ others. As for quality I think you all will be impressed, well judging by some of your stuck up attitudes, maybe not. But I know from a Fab'ing stand point it will be a job well done.
Now If I ever do go and buy a stand I know it will be a streeter, as I don't appreciate the mockery and snobbyness of the "other" brand....
Back to those do it yourselfers! Anyone else want to chime in with their home made stand? |
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Justin Martin
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Edit double post....
Last edited by Justin Martin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Justin Martin
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Edit, double post |
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paul rees
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Doll wrote: | Most, not all, but most of the home-built kart stands I've seen have been so understrength as to be borderline dangerous (as in potentially collapsing under the weight of a kart, dropping a couple hundred pounds randomly on feet, legs, hands, small children, etc).
Don't skimp - make it stronger than you think it needs to be.
Tim |
I am sure Justin and his brother understand loads and strength while building off road trucks. |
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paul rees
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Nick Weil wrote: | Looking at Paul's picture, it seems to me all he did was copy the hard work and ingenuity of the good people at Kart-Lift.
Justin, I am going to guess your under 25 and/or have never actually operated a business, where you WRITE out checks to people that work for you, who then take those checks home to feed their families? |
Sorry Nick that would be I copied one of the 20-25 video's posted on you tube . From different lift builders all across globe. I didn't build it for some one else, I built it for my personal use. I have never seen one >Kart lifter< in person. I am the only one in my club with electric lift. Why because I need It . Were did I build It, in my buddy chassis shop. He came up with angles I made the patterns out of card board . Casters < I had fixed wheels / bought a wench . My buddy wanted to do Aluminum but my skill level for that is lacking because i can only weld steel with my or his tig welder. I welded this up my self . Nick can you tell me how many Gokart frames would considered a copy of another frame. How many roll cages look just like some other fab guys work. So the only thing I stole was time from my buddy shop. But he considered it payment for some of the things i do for him and support I give in my free time. I think I am going have to put a Nick Weil Design Kartlifter Sticker on my lift> have another buddy does raps. |
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paul rees
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Koyen wrote: | | Mike Goebel wrote: | I have chosen to go the minimalistic route with my design. I figured if 3 wheels reduces cost then having only one wheel will have the most dramatic impact on cost reduction.
Mike G. |
Would you be willing to sell the rights to this design? I see a big market with clowns, mimes, and other fans of one wheel transportation.
Can you make another smaller version to go with it for carrying your starter and tools? |
That's what back packs are for . |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1992
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Hi Justin,
Billy Smith thinks everything about karting is overpriced and he loves to stir stuff up, I'm sorry your thread went this way. 
Karting can be a fairly inexpensive hobby IF you have reasonable goals and live in a place where there are good clubs offering sportsman classes. But you'll never save enough on kart stands if that's where you're planning on cutting the budget. Since you're in Phoenix check with Bernie Lacotta and the World Formula program at PKRA, I wish it had been going like it is now 7 years ago when I ran one out there.
I'm sure your brother charges a reasonable rate for his fabrication work, and if he has to design as well it's probably extra. You should be able to make the stand of your dreams for less than buying one if you don't count your labor, and if that's what you want to do go for it.
But, it won't make you any faster and that's what winning races is about....
One thing I would suggest is rather than building a self lifting stand see if you can't get a buddy involved that will help on a regular basis. It'll be a lot more fun and rather than spending countless hours working on a stand you can work on your kart instead.
Regarding things being overpriced, we used to build karts in Phoenix that were proven competitive with the best European chassis out there. When I added up all the parts and time it took to build them there wasn't really a way to make them much cheaper so I decided my price had to be comparable to the European models. Some people gave me a hard time about that but I couldn't see why I should be any cheaper for a hand built all US made kart than what CRG was charging.
I hope you don't take offense at my comments. There are lots of great fabricators on this list and they may be able to give good tips on building stands, but I'm sure there are plenty more who have tried and decided it was better to buy one. Also, if you have the ability to fab good stands it's not that much harder to build your own karts which I can assure you is a whole lot more fun. 
The Streeter Big Foot stand is still a great value and does everything I ever needed a kart stand to do. Larry Streeter (rest his soul) was a great guy who gave back a lot to karting and the company that took over seems to be good guys too. Good luck with your projects....
Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Tim Koyen
Advertiser
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 1556
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Martin wrote: | | ...Now If I ever do go and buy a stand I know it will be a streeter, as I don't appreciate the mockery and snobbyness of the "other" brand.... |
I'm sorry if you thought I was mocking you when I asked to see pictures of your kart stand, that certainly wasn't my intention. I showed you a picture of one of the stands I designed and built and was interested to see what you came up with. Even people like me, who try to make a living off building things started by building them in our garages. I still have the first prototype of the WinchLift I posted a picture of above. Since I designed it in CAD, then fleshed out the details with the help of my good friend Larry Streeter, it worked on the first attempt, but as the years went on, it got better and more refined. That's the cool part of building them everyday, you can incorporate improvements along the way.
Things I've learned...(in case you actually want real info)
1. Wheels and casters are important. Don't buy them at Harbor Freight. They will fall apart and wobble very quickly. It makes the whole rig look rickety.
2. If your design incorporates a winch (it sounds like yours doesn't), get one with a mechanical brake, not a dynamic brake. Just because a winch is a "brand name" doesn't mean it has a brake that is capable of holding a load for an extended period.
3. Black powder coat looks best over the long haul, but powder coat doesn't like brake cleaner, so keep it off as much as possible.
4. Gas springs are cool and can add a lot to a stand, but make sure you use a stock/standard spring. Custom making springs is very expensive and requires large purchases.
5. High power linear actuators are very expensive and require long lead times and large purchases. Over $400 of the previously cited $1200 stand was due to the actuator alone. I was forced to quit producing that kart stand recently as it actually cost more than $1k to produce it. Since kart shops typically require 25%+ margins, that left me packing money in each stand. I didn't really feel that it was reasonable to raise the price to where it needed to be for me to pay my bills, so I stopped making it altogether.
There was company a number of years ago that made a collapsing scissor type stand that used gas springs to help lift the kart. It wasn't a bad design, but you had to pickup the back of the kart and slide the stand under it to get started. Unfortunately for that company, the one person kart stand market is very small and they only sold about 10% of what they had anticipated so they folded up shop. I'll see if I can find a pic of that stand, it might give you some ideas.
***Edit*** Here is a link to a small picture of that stand I was talking about. It doesn't show much detail, but it was called Go-Lift, or something like that.
http://www.e-kmi.com/Archives/pre050105/golift_020103.JPG
And lastly, if you ever do buy a kart stand, the company you listed as your preferred source does build nice stands too, but if you think mine are overpriced, you'll be in for a surprise.  [/i]
_________________
High Quality American Made kart stands. Available direct to you or through one of our many dealers.
www.kartlift.com
Toll Free: 877-777-8020 or 608-235-4761 anytime
www.facebook.com/kartlift |
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