Is Our Sport Broken? - Road Racing - Part 2

Greg Lindahl · Joined: 13 Jan 2011 Posts: 264

I love roadracing in its present format but recognize that trying some new ideas to attract the sprint crowd would be good.
Maybe even shorter heats and more of them with moto scoring.

joseph hollinger · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject:

The dual brake think is a red herring. IKF doesn't require them and we're still not seeing the type of cross over from sprint that the sport needs to stay alive. And it's not the number of races or complexity or anything else. It's money. Plain and simple -- people quit and stay out because racing is too expensive.
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Lyle Clark · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:00 am Post subject:

Ray Chiappe · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:49 am Post subject:

I think Joe is correct also, I prob. dropped $600.00 or $700.00 for my trip to Thunderhill. Thank goodness for the drop in feul costs.
Even though the class was small I had a blast. All it took wan one guy to run with that was running about the same lap times as me.
I have always enjoyed Raod Racing more than sprints. Alot less cut throat, people race pretty clean and are less likely to use the chrome horn.
As I have said before I think there needs to be more unification with the ruling bodies. Lets have some big regional races capped off with one National event. JMO

David Cole · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:37 am Post subject:

Mike Arnold · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:34 am Post subject:

David,

It is hard to get shifter cross over people from Man Cup because there is no shifter classes in Man Cup. I think the series that do have shifter classes we do get several cross over people.

What are the options for the dual brake issue other than Sprint rule or Road Race rule change for the TAG karts? Anybody?

Like I suggested earlier if safety is an issue then change the Sprint rules. I think if enough advance notice is given the cost would not be so bad. It is a small price to pay for added safety. I would bet the farm if front runners won a race or 2 with front brakes then the biggest % of the field would have front brakes ASAP and not complain about. I am not in favor of adding cost to our already expensive sport but I think it would be in best interest of the sport to commonize the brake rule one way or the other.

Mike

joseph hollinger · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:44 am Post subject:

Greg Wright · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:50 am Post subject:

David,

Here's an attempt to begin discussion on the traditional roadracing classes (Laydowns, Laydown sprint) and somehow simplifying the bodywork. Having put bodies on lots and lots of laydowns and RR sprinters I have to agree that it's a pain in the butt if you have the chops to do it. If you don't have said chops then it's much worse.

Discuss??
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Jim McMahon · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:31 am Post subject:

My 2c, when it comes to getting sprint shifters to come to the party, at least for regional you need to look beyond "stock" moto.... If you want to grow a karting class it needs to be inclusive, NOT exclusive. Just have a 125 "shifter" class rather than it being limited to just Stock Moto. Allow Stock, Mod and KZ\ICC and let them run together.

Road racing seems to appeal to a different demographic when it comes to shifters. Possibly because it doesn't beat you up as much as many sprint tracks.
A lot of guys/gals just want to get out there and have a dice with someone for 25-30mins in a relaxed atmosphere on a big track and they want to do it cheap. "Stock" moto isn't cheap anymore. By over emphasizing Stock Honda you exclude the vast majority of Honda (and other brands) water cooled 125 motors that don't meet the exact spec for it that can be picked up cheap. For many people it doesn't make sense to spend north of $2500 on Stock Honda motor that they run 4 times a year for fun. Of course ICC\KZ is another choice too.

The CES series in the Midwest has three shifter classes along these lines and has arguably the biggest shifter grids in the area, sprint or road race..... SKUSA Midwest's entry levels pale in comparison and I think that says something about the class structure and how it relates to the demographics of the drivers.

Shifter classes for CES are...

Stock Honda
CIK 125 (385lbs: Stock Honda, Mod Moto or ICC\KZ all same weight)
G125 (35yrs+, 410lbs: Stock Honda, Mod Moto or ICC\KZ all same weight)

The Stock Honda class has the lowest entries and runs with TaG but then they also have another opportunity to race later in the day in CIK or G depending on their preference.
Biggest grids flip flop between CIK and G.
The CIK and G classes are run on the track at the same time, gridded separately which means we often have 25-30+ karts on the track, there's always someone to play with. There's some top national drivers, some wannabe's (me LOL) and then a good amount of folks that just wanna have a good time racing on a big track. They don't wanna buy a stock moto for $2500+ and or have to get MG yellows etc. That 94 CR or kawi or whatever they got for $800 will do them just fine.

No spec tire BS either, run whatever you want/have. Again IMO this gets butts in seats, you can try it out without having to buy MG yellows or whatever the flavor of your org is.

Spec isnt always the answer, same goes with TaG but I digress. This format works as far as I can see.

JMHO & YMMV

In terms to getting car drivers to cross over, the reality is that a lot of those guys aren't interested in karts because of their size and how they are perceived. They like pottering around in their road cars just fine. Nice and slow.
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David Cole · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:34 am Post subject:

Jim McMahon · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:45 am Post subject:

I agree requiring front brakes for the non shifter karts is not required and is a hindrance to participation. Why give people another reason to dismiss the opportunity.

Joe's point on cost is a valid one. Road races in general require more travel for most than sprint races. Another issue, is that most local sprint tracks have a lot of race dates during the season meaning conflict with potential road race dates, another issue with participation. The RR and and Sprint clubs should work on at least one date a year for "cross pollination". At least that way a bunch of sprinters can get together with a trailer and save some money on travel expenses etc. Badger and CES have done this and it works very well.
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Larry Dobbs · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:32 am Post subject:

NCK tried something new at Thunderhill. They mixed none race sessions in between the race sessions to give people who would like to try the track without being involved in a race the opportunity to do so. There were not very many takers but the side benefit was racers that needed to test could also utilize those sessions before there afternoon heats. The idea was to get them on the track to familiarize them with the speed in hopes it would entice them to race in the future.

David Cole · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:54 am Post subject:

Jim,

No one is suggesting to make Stock Moto the lone shifterkart class. I'm thinking the complete opposite. WKA and CES offer the same three classes. Which is great. IKF have multiple shifterkart classes, and they work well despite some confusion in their structure. The question is, how do we get more? Spec tires is not an issue as far as I'm aware of. Road racing allows any compound and brand.

Going back to the east coast side of things, what do people think about a four-race national schedule? If travel is a major factor as to why people are not attending events, shouldn't we limit the number of national events?
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Jim McMahon · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject:

Jeff Salak · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject:

As Road racers we can discuss as much as we want.

Hasnt been one sprint racer to tell us why he/she doesnt road race.

Thus the question should be asked to all sprint racers why they dont give road racing a try.

Like Jim said Badger has supported CES races at Blackhawk the last 2 years. It has been good when they have club race with CES. Turn-out wise. Trouble is not many(if any) have stayed to support series.

If you race CES series you dont need front brakes in a Tag kart.