National event JB to JA age question

Andrew Peppler · Joined: 08 Aug 2010 Posts: 90

A comment in Fastrack had me thinking, the comment was that "the rule is written as it is in order to allow FJ drivers to compete in the appropriate class at Nationals".

The rule book says you have to be at least 8 to run JB and 12 to run JA, but allows regions to to adjust the JB to JA transition. I'm not really sure what that means for National events as far as JB to JA transition though.

Regions are free to have different transition rules, that I understand. But is there an official rule for Nationals or National events?

I'm just looking for clarification and I have no issues or agenda. Its just as a youth steward and someone asked me, I don't know what to say or even where to ask. The rule book is kind of grey in the wording and maybe I'm missing something. Again, no biggie but just looking for clarification. Is it as simple as January 1st if the kid is 11 then he is OK run JB for all national events for the year?

Scott Boito · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject:

Speaking as a dad to three juniors (and not necessarily as a KAC member): the junior driver should drive in the class that fits the age at the time of the national event. I was fortunate with Kieran since his birthday is 6 June and his first national event was something like the 20th of June the year he turned 8. At home he had been running in FJB since April of that year, taking advantage of the amorphous nature of the rule for regional competition.

Speaking as a KAC member: I still think it should be the class for the age at the time of the National event, but there is ambiguity to allow for some leeway - and I would talk to the event and Junior Stewards for the National event in question to see what their consensus was.
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Tom Reynolds · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:26 am Post subject:

As Scott said the intention of the rule is the age for that event weekend.

An example of an exception could be for a child that will be in FJA for Nationals in September but does not reach their FJA legal age until a week or so prior. A request can be made to run national events leading up to their birthday to run in FJA so they can get experience in that class. This type of situation is why the rule is not quite so black and white.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:52 am Post subject:

So glad someone brought this up, There are some people that read this ambiguous statement as.
is the age of the class during the year ( nats 2011 to Nats 2012)

for example Michael just turned 12 in April and could finish out the competative year in JB.

reading the posts above I seem to be WAY off base.

I must say I am not alone in this interpretation.
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Tom Reynolds · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:00 am Post subject:

If he is 12 by Nationals, no he cannot run in FJB at nationals. He could run in FJB regionally. I didn't know that portion was ever unclear.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:57 am Post subject:

I guess I was thinking and getting crossed up with most sprint track rule sets that address a "bump year".

He likes his Mini Max on the sprint track and we are do-able in ballast @ 265. adding 40 more pounds of lead to the 55 we already have Not in the cards.

wonder where we would be with the WF? @285 Hmmmm.

Stopping here so I will quit whining.
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Andrew Peppler · Joined: 08 Aug 2010 Posts: 90

OK, thanks everyone! I guess, like Joe, I was expecting a cut-off date. For example in little league, you play the summer at your age as of Apr 30th (right before games start).

This clears it up, you run the age you are for the weekend. Flexibility applies, but should go through the Stewards of the event to get permission.

Cool. Thanks!

Tom Reynolds · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:39 am Post subject:

I will say there is no age cutoff date due to the problem of locations. Arizona runs a very different season than say Maine. Yes we share the same nationals dates but their regional season is different and wording in the rulebook could cause some confusion. If you think a specific cutoff date for Nationals explicitly is a good thing, please write a letter. I don't think that really has been explored in the last few years I've been involved.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject:

Just because I can't help it.

What about class by driver wieght. less than say 75 pounds JB (or pick a weight). What does the heaviest JB driver weigh at Nationals let them run zero ballast everyone else ballast to that point.

over 75 pounds go to JA and set the ballast the same way or use an average.

Just don't use weight to slow them down. Restrictors, rev limiters and gears control speed of karts.
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Tom Reynolds · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject:

Joe Ricard · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject:

Because it is the internet and I have an opinion I will share it.

Size and strength make a difference.

Experience = safety

an imature 12 yr old 100 pound kid probably shouldn't get in an JA kart.

Yea Junior steward job sucks.
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Tom Reynolds · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject:

Benn Herr · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1579

Coming from the regular karting world I have seen issues with younger/lighter/junior karters and the classes they race in. Defining the classes by age is the traditional way to do things and it's not too bad of a method when they are a little older. But with young children their sizes can vary greatly within an age group. At those ages strength is primarily a result of their size and karts are a relatively physical thing to do. While it is certainly no guarantee that a larger child has the skills to handle a slightly faster kart, their size will at least give them the capacity.

Watching young kids join and attempt to master the sport it has been interesting. When divided by age as they are now there is always a few that have it figured out, some that are okay, and a few that are really struggling. If the classes had been divided by driver weight the racers in each group would have been much closer to each other in skill level.

Sure you're going to have a 60 pound Fangio and a 125 pound newbie in the "wrong" kart once in a while. But these problems are easily solved by letting the little one grow up for a year. The experience won't hurt them a bit.

Having the big kid run in the little kid group with the same engine restrictions as the little kids also gives them a chance to improve their skills until they're ready to move up. Maybe there could be a sign-off from some officials after the safe/successful completion of a number of events?

Karts would generally carry less ballast on them as the kids would be closer to the predicted class weight. I'm sure a lot of Dads backs would appreciate that! It would also change the pressure put on young kids to compete. The little kid class would be to learn and enjoy. The big kids class would be a little more compete and enjoy.

There would be a lot of things to figure out if this were done. Perhaps an overlap of the driver weights. Up to 80 pounds is B class, down to 70 pounds and a certain age, A class. How much do you restrict the smaller kids class versus the big kids class. Things to work out but not impossible.

Definitely an idea worth thinking about.
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Joe Ricard · Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject:

Thanks Benn, coming from a successful and experienced karter like yourself really this means a lot to me.

Very valid points and I like the 10 pound over lap. simple validation by stepping on the scale and it's soup.

I also whole heartedly agree on a sign off to JA. For gosh sakes the JA karts have the same PAX number as CSP. CSP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tom I have brought this up in so many different forms and in so many different threads what is one more.

My appologies to the OP for dragging this somewhat off topic. The official interpretation of the age rule was explained, it is crystal clear. Thanks Tom.
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Brian Garfield · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject:

For Pros, Howard Duncan made a rule and referred to it as the "Julian Garfield" rule back in 2006. We were going to be headed for the Walnut Ridge Pro Solo around the first week of April while Julian wasn't going to turn 8yrs old until April 15th.

"20.6 – DRIVER ELIGIBILITY
.....ProSolo® Officials may waive the minimum age for Formula Junior (FJ) drivers to accommodate the competition season if the driver has substantial experience and/or training AND at least one (1) parent will be significantly involved in overseeing their child’s competition activities. An FJ driver should have the appropriate-age birthday within 90 days of the first (1st) event entered to be considered for waiving of the minimum age."

This is only in the Pro Solo rule book, and is only about the MINIMUM age (8yrs old) but thought I would bring up one aspect of having things changed that made sense.

Brian