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Roger Beck
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: United States, Illinois, Chicago
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 Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: Indy 500 = Emperor's New Clothes |
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WARNING: The following post may be offensive to some readers.
At the risk of sounding "un-American", I have to say that the Indy 500 just isn't very interesting to me. Is it possible, that an awful lot of people really share this view, but we all allow ourselves to be pulled along the "great American race" path? I tried to watch it this year, but after 50 laps I was pretty bored and shut it off.
Yes it's dangerous, very dangerous. Maintaining a speed of over 200 mph for 500 miles is very dangerous. Maybe this is what most Americans like? Clearly, there seems to be more focus in the U.S. on "avg speed" versus "lap time". I know it's semantics, but it may shed some light on the American psyche. But beyond the danger/risk component, what else is there really to watch? Drafting? I'd be very curious to hear what the drivers would say about the Indy 500 if they didn't have to worry about future employment. Especially former F1 drivers like Barrichello or Sato. I wonder where the Indy 500 ranks on their list of most challenging or exciting drives?
I do have a solution. I watched the movie "Grand Prix" again over the weekend (great movie!). I think the Indy 500 would be a lot more exciting if we went back to "cigar" cars without any aero devices. No, the avg speeds would not be near 220 mph. But I bet the on-track excitement would be exponentially higher. It may also open up opportunties for very good drivers with less than optimal vehicles/set ups.
Sorry if this offends any die hard Indy fans, but I just felt compelled to say it, "Indy is boring".
Roger |
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Scott Heavin
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1766
Location: United States, Indiana, New Castle
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Dude...you must have been watching the wrong race...
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Roger Beck
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: United States, Illinois, Chicago
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Heavin wrote: | | Dude...you must have been watching the wrong race... |
Possibly. The one I watched had all the drivers only turning left, never using their brakes, or shifting gears (on track). It reminded me an awful lot of NASCAR, but these cars were actually attractive (unlike NASCAR). Was that Indy?
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Roger
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Rob Kozakowski
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 209
Location: Canada, Alberta, Edmonton
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger Beck wrote: |
The one I watched had all the drivers only turning left... Was that Indy?
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Pretty sure that only turning left has always been part of Indy and would continue to be part of Indy even if we went with lower tech, slower cars.
I'm a road racer at heart too, and certainly don't love ovals in general. But Indy (with the exception of the 1996 to 1999 period) has always been an exception. I miss the innovations and ideas that we saw up until 1995 before it became the highly spec event that we have today, but it's still a special race. |
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Greg Wright
Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2494
Location: United States, Indiana, Clermont
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Get over the only turning left thing, It's quite clear that the bulk of American racing fans prefer oval track racing.
What I saw was a 200 lap drafting battle with no major pile ups and an exciting final 30 laps with Franchitti, Dixon, Kanaan, Carpenter, Briscoe, Sato and others all in with a chance to win.
I was prepared to be unimpressed with this years race due to the new cars but I was wrong and most say it was one of the most exciting Indys in memory.
Haven't you ever heard the adage, "Oval track racing where the spectators know all the drivers, Road racing where the drivers know all the fans.
Maybe you should ask Rubens how easy Indy is hmmmm. How about Alesi? Sato has Indy experience it sure looked like a walk in the park for him didn't it.
By the way one of the major players on the team that ex F1 driver Jean Alesi was on goes by the name of Roger Beck!!
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Mike Goebel
Joined: 28 Jul 2001
Posts: 5761
Location: United States, California, Winnetka
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Was that race on again?
Mike G. |
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Roger Beck
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: United States, Illinois, Chicago
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Greg Wright wrote: | Get over the only turning left thing, It's quite clear that the bulk of American racing fans prefer oval track racing.
What I saw was a 200 lap drafting battle with no major pile ups and an exciting final 30 laps with Franchitti, Dixon, Kanaan, Carpenter, Briscoe, Sato and others all in with a chance to win.
I was prepared to be unimpressed with this years race due to the new cars but I was wrong and most say it was one of the most exciting Indys in memory.
Haven't you ever heard the adage, "Oval track racing where the spectators know all the drivers, Road racing where the drivers know all the fans.
Maybe you should ask Rubens how easy Indy is hmmmm. How about Alesi? Sato has Indy experience it sure looked like a walk in the park for him didn't it.
By the way one of the major players on the team that ex F1 driver Jean Alesi was on goes by the name of Roger Beck!! |
I wouldn't argue with just about everything you state here (sure, I may have a slightly different POV here or there).
The Romans held chariot races in the coliseum for the entertainment of the masses, not to present the charioteer with the greatest challenge. I concede that oval track racing is pretty well ingrained in our culture. I'm not sure why it only happened here (to this degree), but it did. It's kind of like light beer.
I'd love to ask Rubens how easy Indy is compared to Monaco, or Spa. Unfortunately, he won't be able to give a straight answer until after he is done driving, or working for a manufacturer involved in racing, etc.
Consider this; I bet you could take Justin Bieber and Rubens, put them in identical cars. Take them to a dragstrip, an oval track, and a road course. Let take an equal number of passes/laps at each. I bet the dragstrip times would be close, the oval less close, and the road course, the least close.
But, as you note, just because it's harder to do, doesn't mean more people want to watch it. I guess that's why we don't have the "Chess Channel".
Roger |
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Johnny Brooks
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 309
Location: United States, Virginia, Arlington
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds pretty narrow minded to condemn the new ‘era’ of Indy before it’s really had a chance to get going. After the fiasco of the ‘split’, I’m pretty optimistic that things may actually be turning around.
Since you turned off the race, you missed a race that had a record number of lead changes and more action than any in recent memory…the headlines screamed ‘Jackpot!’
Indy has gone through many changes over the years….front engine roadsters, one off ‘specials’ (remember Smoky Yunick? Or how about Penske’s ‘stock block’?), the end of the ‘Offy’, the return of Europeans, the Ford Cosworth, the Chevy Ilmor, ground effects, AAA/USAC/CART/IRL, turbo, non-turbo…..a long and varied history…way too much to list here.
Yet 50 laps in, on the 1st Indy 500 with the new cars and engines, you’re bored and comparing it to NAPCAR. The pole qualy’d at 226…only 10 mph slower than Arie’s 1996 record…not bad in this age of enhanced safety.
But there is a solution to your problem….just push the button on your remote to the retro channel so you can tune back in to ‘Short Attention Span Theater’.
 
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Jimmy McNeil
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1453
Location: United States, California, visalia
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Consider this; I bet you could take Justin Bieber and Rubens, put them in identical cars. Take them to a dragstrip, an oval track, and a road course. Let take an equal number of passes/laps at each. I bet the dragstrip times would be close, the oval less close, and the road course, the least close. |
Montoya won Monaco, he isnt doing so well in Nascar. Nascar much be much harder than F-1 
Just because their is only left turns doesnt mean its easy.
If Montoya cant get close to Johnsons lap times, I doubt Beiber would be in the same time zone to Rubens on an oval. If you put Beiber in a indy car I doubt he could make one corner at Indy without hitting the wall. |
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TJ Koyen
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 1413
Location: United States, Wisconsin, Sun Prairie
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I've watched mored Indy this year than in recent years and it is much more exciting.
The IndyCar series will NEVER be Formula 1. It just won't work. And there's no reason for it to be. F1 is the pinnacle of motor racing to most. Indy is not. So obviously Monaco and tracks like that will have more prestige to some and are more difficult.
I like the move to having lots of road course races and less oval races, because I prefer road racing, but the 500 was awesome this year. It wasn't like Talledega where the cars just slowly draft by on the straights. Did you see Sato bury it in there on Dixon and Franchitti in the closing laps? That took serious cajones. Sato's driving skill definitely was showing through. He was taking on probably the two most well-funded drivers in the field. The fewer corners, the fewer chances to make a mistake, that's true. But it takes a different kind of talent to hustle an IndyCar around at those speeds than it does to nail all the different apexes at Monaco for 78 laps.
I'm not sure how you think cigar cars with no aero would be safer?
I can agree that the half the excitement is about the history and prestige of the race rather than the racing itself. It isn't the most interesting race on the planet, but it definitely wasn't boring.
| Quote: | | Possibly. The one I watched had all the drivers only turning left, never using their brakes, or shifting gears (on track). It reminded me an awful lot of NASCAR, but these cars were actually attractive (unlike NASCAR). Was that Indy? |
This just confirms you weren't watching the 500.
I watched Monaco, Indy, and NASCAR on Sunday and enjoyed them all. Monaco and Indy were probably a tie in the excitement factor for me, but for different reasons. Monaco was basically a train of cars with only 9 total passes, but that's expected for that race. It came down to strategy and the impending weather. Seeing the drivers pound laps around that track itself is exciting. And then it got damp and slippery from rain and I was on the edge of my seat.
With Indy, and with any oval race that's 500 miles, there is a period of the race where not much is going on. The excitement of the start has worn off, the cars have sorted themselves out, and it's a bit boring. But that's expected. Once the race closes in to the end, you see everyone going for it and making these crazy aggressive passes and I was on the edge of my seat then too.
NASCAR didn't really do much for me, as has become the norm in recent years. I liked seeing Biff bounce off the wall a few times. And it was cool to see Kahne win. Other than that, meh.
If you don't like the 500, don't watch?
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Roger Beck
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: United States, Illinois, Chicago
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnny Brooks wrote: | | Sounds pretty narrow minded to condemn the new ‘era’ of Indy before it’s really had a chance to get going. |
I didn't say anything about Indy car as a series, or "era". I was referring to the Indy 500. I actually starting watching Indy cars again this year after not doing so for the better part of 20 years. I am quite excited about the prospects. I'm just saying that the Indy 500 is boring to me compared to most of the other circuits (yes, road courses) that the cars will run on.
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Roger
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Roger Beck
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: United States, Illinois, Chicago
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Jimmy McNeil wrote: |
Montoya won Monaco, he isnt doing so well in Nascar. Nascar much be much harder than F-1
Just because their is only left turns doesnt mean its easy.
If Montoya cant get close to Johnsons lap times, I doubt Beiber would be in the same time zone to Rubens on an oval. If you put Beiber in a indy car I doubt he could make one corner at Indy without hitting the wall. |
Actually, the Montoya example only reinforces my point. By simplifying the racing circuit, you minimize the variable that is driver ability. By default, this increases the significance of all other variables, such as engine, chassis, and chance. I would never say that turning left in a 3500 lb car at 200 mph is easy. I would say that turning only left in a 3500 lb car at 200 mph is "easier" than turning both directions in said car, and shifting and braking, and drafting, and watching other cars on track. If every time I got im my car to go to work, all I had to do was hit the gas and turn left, it would be "easier" than my current commute, which involves turning both directions AND using all the pedals.
I may not have been clear in my Bieber vs Barrichelo contest. I meant to say put them in identical "street cars", anything, a Taurus, a Nissan Cube. Doesn't matter. The differential between their times will increase with the complexity of the circuit. Guaranteed.
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Roger
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Roger Beck
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: United States, Illinois, Chicago
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TJ Koyen wrote: |
If you don't like the 500, don't watch? |
No, I don't think I will. I tried this year, first time in many years. Actually, there is a part of me that actually wants to be able to enjoy an oval race like I did as a kid (70s!). My father has always been a big NASCAR and Indy fan, and we watched them all the time when I was growing up. Went out to our local 1/4 mile oval on weekends and watched the races. Very fond memories. But once I started driving cars myself on road circuits, ovals just lost their appeal, for me. Once in a while, when my parents come to visit, we'll put on a NASCAR race for my dad. I just can't get interested. It's like watching golf. Sorry.
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Chris Hurst
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 569
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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"Well gad durn, whuts wrong with ovul racin? You thank them karts n formala cars with all them electronac gizmos are fast you ain't seen nuthin brother. Gad darn pushrod V8 would smoke ur rice rocket 2 stroke any day uh duh week. Formuluh 1 cawr don't make no torque. Be careful who ya talk tuh like that boy, some people don't take kind to that kinda talk round here."
-99% of the responses I got when I brought up the fact that oval racing isn't exciting compared to other forms of motor sport while living in the heart of Nascar Country. Swear to God. 
I think oval racing as a spectator sport is pretty boring no matter what speed the cars are going. If you live in the south, I hope you are using a fake name. If they find you...you're gonna git hawg tied n eaten boy!
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Chris Hurst
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 569
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Greg Wright wrote: |
Maybe you should ask Rubens how easy Indy is hmmmm. How about Alesi? Sato has Indy experience it sure looked like a walk in the park for him didn't it.! |
I wish you would have said Nascar instead of Indy...I almost got to use my golden reply. oohhhh why couldn't you have just said Nascar. Must...resist...reply....ing....must...shut...e...karting...forum... |
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