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Jimmy Wooldridge
Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:11 am Post subject: New Member Checking in and with plenty of questions. |
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Some say that no question is stupid, so lets see if I can make some exemptions.
I feel that posting in the autocross section is more applicable than other sections, as reading around here for the past several months and keeping my mouth shut has proven to only cram my head with more information than I could ever imagine for an automotive hobby.
To shed a little background, I have owned and for a brief time campaigned a Nissan NX2000 in the Southern Indiana Region SCCA solo 2 region. While in high school I built the car to compete in Street Prepared, managed to kill an engine ( hydrolock), bring the car back to life, race some more, then go off to college and have to take a hiatus.
Well, Im graduated, starting my career and need to fill the empty void in my life of driving like a maniac and "playing cars".
Only I have been convinced that playing cars should now be "Playing Karts". I am sold on this idea. I want to run a shifter kart in the SCCA again, and maybe get into what I believe people call sprint racing. Surprisingly I have found some racing series in the midwest ( I live in southern Illinois, around Evansville Indiana area).
Anyways, to get to my questions after a proper introduction.
It seems to me the most practical and economical way to go about SCCA Karting ( maybe in general) is to run a stock/mod moto Honda CR125 platform. This is all based on the fact that I want a shifter kart. I will not be convinced that it is better to not bang gears. I have too much built up tension to not slam gears when driving spiritedly.
What REALLY confuses me is the inundating amount of engine options out there, which really throws me for a loop on what is best. this is what has led me to believe just look for a CR125 and be done.
I am also completely lost on the chassis. I have become familiar with some of the big name brands, shopped around, but while looking at the classifieds it seems nothing of what I have picked up is translating.
I am around 5'8" and currently weigh in around 170-180lbs ( still losing the college keg).
I am hoping to gain some knowledge of what I am getting into for autocrossing a kart ( I have read several guides thus far, but am looking for more info), as well as what chassis are good for it, and general engine/powerplant/drivetrain discussion.
My main worry about the chassis would be is I will be running solely on an old airfield within my own region. It will not be a kart specific course that I have a feeling some of these chassis are made for, hence I dont want to break a chassis.
I appreciate any/all help and I look forward to making some new friends here. |
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Christian Hubbell
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 236
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Cr125 mod is likely the way to go. No weight penalty and with more people running them there will be more people to ask further questions too. Is it the "best"? Well that is debatable all day and even I could probably come up with a few reasons why it's not but still run one anyways.
If you have a local kart shop I would try to get a chassis that they support, in a pinch that is priceless. Me, I bought a chassis that not too many people have in the states and have to order everything. What you'll find though is that a lot of different parts will fit a lot of different karts. Think about consumables such as brake pads and see if you can get replacements.
In the end you may not have a large selection depending on your budget but make the best decision you can and get racing. Then once you hit that pipe for the first time be sure to tells us about it. Do some locals and then come play at some National level events. Lots of good info and people to help you out. |
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Jimmy Wooldridge
Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Christian Hubbell wrote: | Cr125 mod is likely the way to go. No weight penalty and with more people running them there will be more people to ask further questions too. Is it the "best"? Well that is debatable all day and even I could probably come up with a few reasons why it's not but still run one anyways.
If you have a local kart shop I would try to get a chassis that they support, in a pinch that is priceless. Me, I bought a chassis that not too many people have in the states and have to order everything. What you'll find though is that a lot of different parts will fit a lot of different karts. Think about consumables such as brake pads and see if you can get replacements.
In the end you may not have a large selection depending on your budget but make the best decision you can and get racing. Then once you hit that pipe for the first time be sure to tells us about it. Do some locals and then come play at some National level events. Lots of good info and people to help you out. |
Great advice, especially for the chassis. I am about 2-3 hours from the indianapolis area, I do remember seeing one larger shop around there, i will just need to google a bit and hopefully call up and ask some questions they have heard 10 thousand times. but thats what they are paid for, right?
I would love to hit up some of the national events once I feel comfortable with the platform. I am wondering if i need to bring some depends for the first several runs to make sure I dont get the **** scared out of me.
Hopefully I can sell this damned car of mine to help fund the project immediately, rather than have to save up until next season more than likely. |
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Don Bruner, Jr.
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 57
Location: United States, South Carolina, Lexington
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:50 am Post subject: Sorry to...... |
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....inform you, but both mod moto and ICC engines recieve a 25 pound weight penalty...
Don Bruner, Jr. |
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Scott Boito
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 261
Location: United States, Tennessee, Kingsport
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Not true, Don. If you run a programmable ignition on your Mod Moto, then, yes, you will incur a 25 lb penalty. If you run the Mod Moto with stock ignition (like I do), there is no penalty - 385 lbs.
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KM #68 - Haase/Honda kart
BetterOffRacing
Member of the SCCA KAC |
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Bill Schmidt
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 241
Location: United States, Kansas, Kansas City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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You might be thinking of www.cometkartsales.com
They are in Indianapolis.
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Bill Schmidt
'95 Trackmagic 125 shifter (Kawi)
'88 Red Devil F500 4-link rear (Rotax) |
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Jimmy Wooldridge
Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yea, thats who it was. They are around 2 hours away. New Castle Racetrack is also within driving distance as well. It looks like I will have plenty of opportunities once I get a kart. Now if someone will by the damned old nissan toy.
On a good note, I just signed the papers for a new job today, will be finally starting my career in graphic design in a full time setting. So i may just be able to go and buy a kart package in cash outright and get the feel of the go fast crack pipe before the season is over.
Now here is an interesting question. It seems the Honda CR125 is the standard moto engine, but I have also heard of Yamahas and Kawasaki's being run. I dont see much support, Why is this? Am I just looking in the wrong places?
Also, what chassis would you autocrossers recommend for a setup that will be mainly run on an old airfield ( Mid American Air center in Lawrenceville IL, if any of you run in the Southern Indiana or Southern Illinois Region).
There are some bumps. I spoke with the current head guy of the region about running a kart, he had mentioned some had run before with karts but that there was a specific line they would take that was different than the cars because of the surface. So the durability of the chassis as well as if I should look for a softer/harder chassis is a big "What if" in my adventure of selecting a Kart. |
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Don Bruner, Jr.
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 57
Location: United States, South Carolina, Lexington
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Scott Boito wrote: | | Not true, Don. If you run a programmable ignition on your Mod Moto, then, yes, you will incur a 25 lb penalty. If you run the Mod Moto with stock ignition (like I do), there is no penalty - 385 lbs. |
Thanks for straight'n me out on that, Scott......
Don |
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Chris M Johnson
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Jimmy Wooldridge wrote: |
Now here is an interesting question. It seems the Honda CR125 is the standard moto engine, but I have also heard of Yamahas and Kawasaki's being run. I dont see much support, Why is this? Am I just looking in the wrong places?
Also, what chassis would you autocrossers recommend for a setup that will be mainly run on an old airfield ( Mid American Air center in Lawrenceville IL, if any of you run in the Southern Indiana or Southern Illinois Region).
There are some bumps. I spoke with the current head guy of the region about running a kart, he had mentioned some had run before with karts but that there was a specific line they would take that was different than the cars because of the surface. So the durability of the chassis as well as if I should look for a softer/harder chassis is a big "What if" in my adventure of selecting a Kart. |
Even if you decide you want a "hard" vs a "soft" chassis, its difficult to tell which ones are hard or soft by looking at them. More curved bars usually indicates a stiffer chassis, and 32mm tubing is also usually stiffer. Different construction techniques make each kart feel/flex different. My advice is to decide on the motor package first, then buy as new a chassis as you can afford, with as little evidence of wear as possible. Chassis do wear out over time. It wont happen at an autoX doing 4 runs a week, but a guy who puts 2 hours on the chassis every weekend will wear it out in a year or two. Unlike shocks they can't be rebuilt.
Any of the 32mm chassis will work for shifter. If you are lighter (165lbs or less), a 30/32 or 30mm chassis may work as well. Once the kart is on the track you can decide if you need more flex or less. If you need more flex you remove the stiffening bars, use a softer axle, raise the CG, and/or add caster/front track. If you need less flex you do the reverse. |
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Jason Vehige
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 282
Location: United States, Tennessee, Nashville
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Jimmy Wooldridge wrote: |
Yea, thats who it was. They are around 2 hours away. New Castle Racetrack is also within driving distance as well. It looks like I will have plenty of opportunities once I get a kart. Now if someone will by the damned old nissan toy.
On a good note, I just signed the papers for a new job today, will be finally starting my career in graphic design in a full time setting. So i may just be able to go and buy a kart package in cash outright and get the feel of the go fast crack pipe before the season is over.
Now here is an interesting question. It seems the Honda CR125 is the standard moto engine, but I have also heard of Yamahas and Kawasaki's being run. I dont see much support, Why is this? Am I just looking in the wrong places?
Also, what chassis would you autocrossers recommend for a setup that will be mainly run on an old airfield ( Mid American Air center in Lawrenceville IL, if any of you run in the Southern Indiana or Southern Illinois Region).
There are some bumps. I spoke with the current head guy of the region about running a kart, he had mentioned some had run before with karts but that there was a specific line they would take that was different than the cars because of the surface. So the durability of the chassis as well as if I should look for a softer/harder chassis is a big "What if" in my adventure of selecting a Kart. |
We have 3 Yamahas here locally in Nashville ... All 3 are very strong!! I would Look for a newish kart that uses components from one of the larger Italian kart builders..... OTK (Tony kart, Kosmic) CRG (CRG, GP, Vanspeed, DR Racing, and more) SKM ( Intrepid, Italkart, and a few newer Trackmagics) or Arrow ( Australian). If Money is tight old Trackmagics ( American Made) tend to hold up well, are very well built but some parts are becoming hard to find. 32mm
Motor wise take what is on the Chassis within reason.... Honda/Yamaha/TM Moto .... Or an ICC/KZ style motor such as a TM K9, SGM, Vortex, or Maxter are all fine choices.... Just remember that ICCs and PI Motos get the extra 25lbs.... Oh and the extra power too 
IMHO it's about the price and condition of the overall package.
Welcome to the class.....It's a pretty steep learning curve... You will love it!!
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Jason Vehige
08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204 |
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Jimmy Wooldridge
Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Great advice guys. I was really glad to hear some of the introduction to tuning the chassis on these things, as literally they are the suspension per se.
I really need to get ahold of my cousin, as at one point he was going through the training as a honda certified mechanic at a motorcycle dealiership back in the early 2000's. So I am probably sure he knows a thing or two about the moto engines.
On the European engines, I see from a design standpoint ( forgive my inner snob coming out, this is my profession ( graphic designer with a little bit of industrial design experience), I can see the ICC etc being a great choice as the engine platform was designed solely for the kart. The airbox layout etc is spot on. HOWEVER, To me the idea of Kart racing is "budget" ( haha!) racing compared to running a 20 ish year old front wheel drive car in Street Prepared or any other car for that matter.
The cost of running a kart per performance is just unbeatable, from what I have seen. Also. I can take the drive up to indy and get made a fool by the guys who race on a circuit every weekend as well.
Shopping around on the classified sections around here, I have been asking myself if I would save and come out on top with a great setup if I more or less "Pieced" together a kart package for autocrossing. Chassis here, good engines there. parts. etc.
What blows my mind is the range that Karts can go for. You see a clearing house sale for 2500-4000 where you can get everything you need to start, the kart is maybe 4 years old.. then you turn around and see a 2 year old kart going for 11K. As a novice in this side of racing, this worries me. Am I looking at spoiled milk generally? |
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Joe Ricard
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 864
Location: United States, Mississippi,
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:01 am Post subject: |
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As a newb you will not be able to tell the difference between a 2 yr old chassis (Pro level hand me down) and a 4 to 5 yr old chassis. Autocrossing on a parking lot is going to beat on your kart more than lapping. Cracks, jumps, rocks, and the sand blasting from MG greens kicking up every single piece of debris and throwing at the chassis tubes.
It's not as painfull to blow up a cheaper motor while you are learning your 1st two years. Blowing up a pimptastic motor your 2nd autocross will send you back to dodging cones with cars.
buying karts in pieces is frustrating. Just get a turn key everything ready to go. Aren't there a couple autocross karts for sale right now?
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr. |
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Chris M Johnson
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Ricard wrote: | As a newb you will not be able to tell the difference between a 2 yr old chassis (Pro level hand me down) and a 4 to 5 yr old chassis. Autocrossing on a parking lot is going to beat on your kart more than lapping. Cracks, jumps, rocks, and the sand blasting from MG greens kicking up every single piece of debris and throwing at the chassis tubes.
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Joe, I am going to respectfully disagree. High grip racing on a track places more torsion on the chassis, and the quantity of laps is much greater (30+ laps for two qualifiers and a race, plus practice = 10-20x more wear than an autoX) Also hitting the curbs (and other karts) will incur more wear than a bumpy lot, in my opinion.
What I wanted the OP to take from the post was that a kart can be "trashed" if it is run hard on a track for a season or two. An older but less used kart would be a better value. I don't have any direct experience with worn out karts, but some track racers say they notice a difference in handling after a hard season. Other drivers use them for 4+ seasons or more and are still fast. Factory drivers change chassis after 3 races.
He wont notice the difference in handling in his first year, but starting with something nice means he won't have to replace it. Also, newer chassis have less mechanical issues, which lets him focus on driving. OTH, running a beat old kart is not going to change his enjoyment or lap times very much. |
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