From TAG to 4 Stroke...

Troy V Smith · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:14 am Post subject: From TAG to 4 Stroke...

Wow - a complete change of worlds, and in this one - I'm lost!

We have removed the Leopard from my wifes "play-mobile" and are putting on a four stroke to better suit her needs - BUT, which four stoke, or how to get this accompished is a foriegn language to me.

I've heard about the clones, the LO206, flatheads, animals, F200, WF, etc., etc.. Are there benifits and downfalls of each I assume? We basically have an Arrow AX9 chassis in need of some moderate power. I've heard issues of seat/clutch clearances, jackshafts, inboard, outboard - motor mount angles, clutches, pipes and restrictors! Geesh!

As of right now, we are leaning toward the LO206. Reason for this was only the availability here locally. Our goal is to get her back on the track in her "play-mobile" quickly. She is not a racer and has no intentions to race, but more less have a little fun with practice and general lapping. May run both the oval and the sprint courses. She'll open things up on a long run, but pretty heavy on the brakes in corners. Has not built up a whole lot of confidence in the kart just yet. She figures her car can only go 10MPH through a corner, so must be the same for a kart too! Rolling Eyes

My hands are plenty full with the shifter, so not looking to do allot of maintenance and such. Would prefer a long running, dependable, moderate maintenance option. Do any of these motors carry onboard elec starters (another plus)?

Pointers, suggestions? Items I'll need? Motor amd mount suggestions? Thanks...
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"We may not be the fastest on the track...
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John Matthews · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:59 am Post subject:

If you have someone locally selling and supporting the LO206 I'd say go with it. Heck, even if you don't have someone local it's the only choice that will bolt on straight from the box and basically not give any hassles (yes I've built and run all the choices you mention). The added plus is you can always sell it down the road to a builder if she decides to move up or get out of it all together. If you have somebody locally setting them up you might even see a class forming that she would want to race in.

Power wise, at ~9HP on pump gas it's a little more than a clone, about the same as a flathead but with a different power curve, and less than the Animal, F200 or World Formula although the basic engine can be modified up to 25HP.

The pull start that comes with it works fine but putting an electric starter on is no big deal, hardest part is pulling the flywheel and attaching the ring gear it just uses a standard Briggs starter.

I haven't put one on your specific chassis but would get the motor, a 15* mount, clutch, chainguard, & exhaust and see how it fits. You'll need to get some #35 gears and move the sprocket carrier inboard too, you might want to do that first but really you need to have all the pieces together before you can tell if it'll work. I think Arrow has a lot of experience with 4 cycle so you might just want to give them a call....

Whatever engine you go with I'm sure you'll be happy you switched the kart over to 4 stroke. It'll be a lot less intimidating for any novice driver and I bet your wife's confidence will go way up quickly.

Let me know if you have more questions.

Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

Rob Kozakowski · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject:

A lot of good advice from John. I'll expand on a few things...

First, If it's just for fun, no racing, I'd say you've got 2 options for motor:

1) LO206 - reliable and not expensive, and can be raced competitively later if you want without changing anything because all the engines are very equal due to good manufacturing tolerances. Will probably have some value later on. You can buy as a Junior or Senior engine (I think slightly different carb setup, not sure about pipe). Other than than, the only choice you have for this engine is what clutch and mount you use.

2) Box stock clone - keeping it box stock keeps it reliable and the least expensive option if it's not raced, a bit slower too. Personally, I'm not sure if you'd want to race it because one box stock clone might not be the same as another box stock clone (poor quality control), so the clone racing can get expensive if you don't watch out. Also, "box stock" can mean different things to different people. Probably worth nothing after you've bought it. The good and the bad is that there's lots of things you can do with pipes and opening them up, but I don't think that's what you're looking for. The last thing to warn you about is the flywheel issue. To some, it is a non-issue. To others, the possibility of the flywheel failing is a real safety concern (there are enough stories if you research it, however remote the chance may be), and is at the very least something you should be aware of before making a decision.

If I were you, I'd go LO206, but I think it's fair to recommend considering the box stock clone (if it will only be used for fun, it's real cheap if you're smart) and let you make the choice.

If you're not afraid to open up the clone and tinker a bit, the clone can be made about as quick as the LO206 for under half the price of the LO206.

I know because I've got a clone that I opened up to remove the governor components, added a throttle plate, fuel pump, and pipe and drilled out a jet to increase power a bit. I learned it all from the internet, so it is simple enough to do if you want. This motor is about as fast as my LO206, but is just used for fun and practice days (seat-time) ONLY.

Alternatively, you could buy a complete clone package where someone else does the work for you, and it will cost a little less than a LO206 for similar performance. But, you've still got a clone that's probably not competitive if your wife (or anyone) ever decided to try racing it.

Second, as far as fitting to the chassis, again I don't know about clearances on your chassis, but here's what I'd do regardless...

Start by seeing if anyone knows if it will fit. If you can't get an answer, I'd recommend buying a Burris mount to start. Test fit it on the chassis to see if you have the clearances or not. If not, get the Burris jackshaft kit that works with the Burris mount and run it with the jackshaft. It's what I've done, and it does the job very nicely. I think it's a good quality product, even if it is a little pricier than lesser quality mounts.

Third, if it's just for fun, you can use pretty much any clutch you want. Get something inexpensive that your local kart shop sells so you've got help if you need it, mount it and go. $50-$75 should get you something reasonable.

Craig Drabik · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject:

The World Formula has electric start, but plan on pull-starting it much of the time anyways. The starter isn't the most reliable piece on the package :/ Most of the people in our club remove their starters.

Troy V Smith · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the input. I am relieved to see these responses as I picked up the LO206 package late this afternoon along with the Burris mount, clutch, etc., etc. Will begin turning bolts tomorrow and see how things progress. Got to get this motor mounted and ready to go!

My shifter has been "black flagged" until the wifes kart is ready! Rolling Eyes

Thanks guys!
_________________
TVS Motorsports -
"We may not be the fastest on the track...
but we're having the most FUN!"

John Matthews · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:04 am Post subject:

You're a lucky man Cool

I would do whatever it takes to keep your wife happy, especially if she wants to drive. You never know, she might even be good once she gets used to it Very Happy

Have her read this:

http://www.vintagekarts.com/bugfayearticle.htm

Cheers,
_________________
John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

Troy V Smith · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:50 am Post subject:

Thanks John - will do! Started the "put together" this morning - sure hopw this is worth the efforts! Got some issues, what do you guys think?

Little motor, big trouble! Hey guess what - the Arrow Chassis is not real compatible with the LO206 (who woulda thunk it? Surprised

). Oh well, always up for a challenge! I am attempting to get this motor onto the Arrow chassis and have a couple issues - maybe you guys have some other ideas.

I'm currently using (or trying to) the Arrow AX9 BMAX chassis with a Burris 15 degree int. mount kit.

First off, due to the combination of the crossmember between the engine frame rails, and the location of the side nerf bar mounts, the only place to mount this thing flush on the frame is way forward - about 12" forward of where the Leopard sat. Any issues with that - other than the header cooking the drivers arm?

Secondly, I am going to have to install the clutch with the drive on the inboard side otherwise the chain is inline with the seat struts - but inboard it is inline with the third bearing housing. Only way around this I think, is to use the Burris jack shaft. Will the jack shaft work with the clutch driver on the inboard side of the motor?

The clutch bolt is tight up against the seat, but trivial really - any issues with replacing the standard bolt with a button head allen - (heck might give me another 32nd of an inch to work with)?

Suggestions as to where I should best pick up or install a pulse line for the fuel pump?

More coming, I'm sure...
_________________
TVS Motorsports -
"We may not be the fastest on the track...
but we're having the most FUN!"

Walt Gifford · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:54 am Post subject:

Run the clutch with the chain to the left and move the engine to the right to clear the strut. You might have to drill new holes in the mount. Might have to re weld that cross member to clear the chain. This is why guys with euro frames use that jack shaft, solves allot of problems. Hex head for the clutch bolt. Pulse line comes off the valve cover. You need to drill a hole near the base and screw in a barb fitting. get the engine back as far as you can. Cut the cross member out and grind the mount to clear the nerf bar if you have to. Get some header wrap for the pipe.

Electric starter lol, it's not tag it's pts, that's you pullin' a rope bro.
You gotta' stop thinking F1 and start thinking lawn mower.

Take a look at this here link:

http://karting.4cycle.com/forumdisplay.php?f=120

Git'er done.

Gif Cool

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Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001
Yamaha KT100 Service Center
40 years karting experience

mike best · Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 57 Location: Australia, not USA,

This reprint from NKN may have some info you can use. It talks about fitting a jackshaft and an LO206
http://www.hilliardextremeduty.com/media/NKN_Article.pdf

Rob Kozakowski · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:02 am Post subject:

The Burris mount should allow you to move the engine "sideways" on the mount to get more side to side clearance.

I'd save myself a lot of time and struggles by getting the Burris jackshaft if you can't get the clearance with a traditional setup. It's such a simple solution and a whole lot easier than welding, re-welding, etc. Just remember you'll need a second chain.

Can't remember off the top of my head if I run the clutch driver inboard or outboard, but when the jackshaft is mounted, you'll see which way you'll need to set it up.

Bernie Lacotta · Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 166

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

Boy, i hope for your sake she is not disappointed after all this effort. Surprised

Changing from a Leopard to a L206 is a big step down in performance.
And it will be you pulling that rope i bet !
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Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!"

Troy V Smith · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:37 am Post subject:

John Matthews · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:57 am Post subject:

The power a Leopard puts out is way too much for a novice driver IMHO. When I first started selling Easykart I used to give free test drives to interested folks. Most would come off track talking big about how they were definitely gonna start racing but you could see in their eyes it scared the wit out of them. Most never came back Crying or Very sad

The good thing about a low powered 4 stroke on a small course is the torque gives the impression of good acceleration even if it's no where close to a TaG engine. Most sprint tracks have a "kid kart" configuration which is perfect for this set-up so that's one easy way to keep lap times reasonable compared to other classes.

Most women actually have better fine muscle control and judgement than their male counterparts so if they want to they can get competitive in a kart even faster, they just need to want it Wink

Cheers,
_________________
John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.