Another new 4 stroke

[Chad Stapleton]

Anyone familiar with this motor? http://www.motorimckart.it/azita.html
250 cc, 20hp, watercooled, OH cam, Dellorto diaphram carb, oil clutch, electric start, and designed for a kart !!
Sort of a 4-stroke Rotax Max !
Looks like Margay are the importers.


[ May 21, 2002: Message edited by: Chad Stapleton ]

[Gary Kozuma2]

I for one have no interest in going that slow.

Gary K.

[Rick Blood]

Aren't you already?

[Gary Kozuma2]

That's what I mean, I don't need any help going slower!

Wise allic kids

[Chad Stapleton]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Kozuma:
I for one have no interest in going that slow.
Gary K.

---

I seem to recall that was the attitude of many when the proposal was made to change the GP bikes to 4-stroke. !!
Not such a smart opinion now..
Remember also that the MAJORITY of karters are already running 4-stroke's - its just unfortunate that most of them are adapted "tiller" or "mower" motors.
As karting enthusiasts, we should welcome any company prepared to build a new dedicated kart motor - of any stroke!

[Gary Kozuma2]

Huh?

Chad, now normally I can agree with almost anyone on anything. And this isn't a personal attack on you. Cheers! But just because this motor is built for a kart doesn't make it a good solution. And just because I said I'm not interested doesn't mean the minions won't be. Maybe it's a great replacement for a 100cc go slow motor when and if 2/ are outlawed. But just so you know, we're on the same page. The next new motor I'll buy will be a 4 stroke. When, what and if is the only question.

Your comparison between motogp and 500cc 2 strokes is like comparing the motor from a P51 to Ole Evinrude's first 2 stoke outboard motor. The motogp motors are on the same high dollar, high performance level as an F1 motor cranking out somewhere in the neighborhood of 250hp per litre. A California smogged sport bike motor makes about 180hp/litre. A Honda 450 4/s single makes about 130hp/litre and that kart motor makes a measily 80.

And besides it's just plain ugly.

Sorry, I calls em likes I sees em.

Gary K.

[Chad Stapleton]

Gary,
Whats wrong with comparing 4s motoGP bikes and 500 2s GP bikes ? i dont follow your P51 v's Evenrude logic..
i agree, this is not the ultimate 4s kart motor, but compared to the available 4s options - Briggs Animal(10hp, low $$'s), thro' to Biland (28hp, mega $$'s), you have to say it looks a good option, (IF the price is reasonable), considering its spec's.
It appears to be built for long hard service (rental karts), so upping the hp's should be possible for racing.
I suspect that the MAJORITY of karts run with less than 20hp currently, and still have a lot of fun.
Each to his own...

[Bob Vehring]

Ya know, I get confused when I come over here, I check in every once and awhile because I'd like to see the 4 cy section grow over here, but everytime I come I always see 2 cy / enduro people tell us how our classes should be, yes their comparativly slow, we know that, and we don't care. most of us are also aware of the new 4 cy motors out there, they are impressive, and purhaps the would be a good option for you guys if your 2 cy world does go thru some changes, but for most of us, the last thing anyone wants is a exotic, expencive high hp motor, especialy if it has to come from overseas from a company that puts nothing back into our sport. Briggs are about engine building, we have over 50 cams 30 pipes, open porting and so on, We'll be at Gateway on Fri, if my vavles arn't floating we change springs, if I need more mid range we change cams ect. like other classes, our driving and chassis set up has to be right there but most often, in a Briggs class, the guy who wins is the one who built the right motor for that track. Please don't take this the wrong way, and I not refering to the people that posted here, but rather trying to give a better idea of how many of us look at it. Bob

[Gary Kozuma2]

Hey Chad,

My point on the motogp motor specs is that there's no way the big 4 japaneese companies along with the big italian companies would create a formula that would not pay off. I know you appreciate the merits of both the 2S and 4S motors and for different reasons.

A low cost 20 hp motor fits a certain segment of the kart world that I'm just not interested in, that's all. I'm just hoping a big MX motor maker like Honda or Yamaha make their 250cc motor available as a kit. That's what I'm talkin about!

Gary K.

[Chad Stapleton]

Garry, i understand that as a "shifter" guy you will be wanting something more than the current 4-stroke kart motors have to offer, me too, to a certain extent, but i am always encouraged when these new motors show up progressing in the right direction (away from the "tiller" designs)
Although it has no gears still, perhaps this Jawa will warm your blood a little ?;- http://www.diggersdungeon.cc/
im sure the brakes would get your pulse going !!.

[Gary Kozuma2]

Chad, see I knew you would come through for me! Is that Jawa a 500cc speedway bike engine that runs on menthanol?

Ya just gotta love the idea of too much power. At least I do.

And thanks for keeping me out of the ICC debate. My doctor says I have to cut down.

Cheers,

Gary K.

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Gary Kozuma ]

[George Sunderland]

One thing on the 4 cycle moto GP vs 500cc GP that everyone forgets. Yes, the first four 4 strokes Have been outrunning the 2 strokes but they are also bigger displacement. Limit their displsacement to 500cc and it may be a different story. And, I for one prefer the whail of a GP 2 cycle. Not to knock the 4 cycle guys too much. I ran Briggs when it wasn't cool (mid '70s). But I got out because it got out of hand with the sorting of cams and carbs, etc. Making a 2 cycle run out front comes down to porting, pipe and carb. Ditto for a 4 stroke but add cam and valve train, exotci oils and fuels and more $. And, once you drive a well tuned 2 cycle, a 4 cycle does feel rather slow.

[Roy Randolph]

Well, if everyone is giving there two cents worth, I will through in mine.

I have ran the Mac's in the seventy's the Briggs in the 90's (both sprint and Oval) and now play around with the Rotax on the Dirt Ovals.

The briggs is a great engine IF that is the reason you got into karting. THe track is only a testing ground to see how well you built your engine. I for one don't like spending hours in the shop working on engines, I dont have the time for that, one reason I like the Rotax so much after racing the Briggs for several years.

But after being around seeing ALL aspects of karting this is how I sum it up from my experience:

Briggs Racing Low Down Payment and Monthly $$$ payments.

2-Stroke (aka Rotax) A lot more of a downpayment but the monthly payments are a lot more affordable.

{payments meaning costs to race and be competitive)

While I like all forms of Karting 2 stroke, 4 stroke, Dirt Oval Paved Oval, and sprint racing I due lean toward 2 cycles.

Friend of mine races a 2 stroke Yamaha KT-100 on the Dirt Oval. Several times a year he is challenged by the Briggs 4 stroke guys with their Modified Briggs. They all put on a good show but once the 8 to 12 lap race is over, the KT-100 always seems to be a good 1/4 to 3/4 lap ahead of the Modified Briggs. (Yes he is a good, NO make that, very good driver, maybe that is the difference, but the fact still remains a Briggs hasn't beat him yet, but they keep trying)

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Roy Randolph ]

[Christopher Livengood]

I'm to tired to actually read all of that. But, i think that you guys are forgeting that karting is not about the motor builder or the chassis. It is meant as a stepping stone for the DRIVER. And yes there are different motors and classes and some may be better than others. But the altimate goal is to have close cheap racing that provides a step of the racing latter. This is done by having quik close racing motors that will prove who is the best driver not who has the most money to get his motors blue printed. And everybody knows that the briggs are way outdated but yamaha's are nothing to brag about. My point is there will be a happy medium between the GP Bike motors of today and the briggs motors of yesterday. And when this medium is found we will have relativly cheap, quik and close 4 stroke racing motors that will need little blue printing. And if the motor comes from europe or mars i dont care. As long as the motor meets the needs of kart racing.

[Brian Sheridan]

If anyone is at Road America for Badger Kart Clubs Super Nationals on the weekend of June 15th, they will be able to see one of these new Motori MC Kart BAT4 kart engines. Shamrock Racing is importing the engine into the US. This is our first test of the power plant, we don't even have time to dyno the engine before the race. We will after the race, and then we will disassemble it to see how well it is made. We know that it does have a steel roller crank and a forged steel roller bearing rod, much like an ICC engine, and that it will turn 9000 rpm. Why are we doing this, well we think that a OHC water cooled 4 cycle that makes 20 to 25 HP just may be a good ride. Did you notice that I said 25HP, what you have seen is not all that is going on. More on that later,and keep an eye on this site for a report after the race. Now if only DHL does not send it to Japan. If any one wants to talk about it, race@alexssa.net is our E-Mail.
Brian Sheridan
Shamrock Racing