Karts in Autocross

Marc Segal · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: Karts in Autocross

Our region (Las Vegas) is kart friendly but they don't allow karts to run with cars. We have our own grid (similar to other regions) and karts are only allowed on the track when there are no cars on course.

It slows down the event especially if there are 2 drivers in 1 kart. I suggested running the second driver with the two driver cars but the RE doesn't want karts to be gridded with the cars. He also doesn't want to have a 2 driver kart grid.

Our region doesn't have a 5 car or 5 minute rule for re-runs. They just have the car/kart take their re-run right away so there is no issue of a kart having to run when the cars run due to a re-run.

I asked the RE if we could run the karts with the cars if the course was safe (didn't have sections where two cars/karts got close) and he said he would have to review the By-Laws. Paul Durr (former committee member) has read the By-Laws and doesn't recall seeing anything written about karts having to run separately. I think this was an old "local option" rule from way back in the beginning when karts ran (about 12 years ago).

Is there anything written that I can show the RE to convince him that karts can run with cars?

Tim Walsh · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:24 am Post subject:

How many karts/drivers are in the region? This can make a big difference.
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Marc Segal · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:55 am Post subject: Karts in Autocross

We used to get 7 or more. Those were the good old days!

Now we only get 3 or 4.

Juan Jaramillo · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:29 am Post subject:

I believe that rule applies only to juniors.
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Joe Ricard · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:48 am Post subject:

Exactly Junior karts. However, there is some wording about karts being grouped with similar formula cars if the course path doubles back in close proximity.

I always run with cars but from a grid spot out of the way from cars. My choosing. I get the other drivers attention and let them know I am skipping infront (ICC thing).

We always send Juniors out right before the 1st heat cars go. and hot lap get them done and back in the RV.
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Jason Vehige · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject:

Per the rules an Adult Kart can run on course at the same time as a Car... but many regions do not do so as an extra precaution. Some SSS do not understand the rule adults vs juniors and just follow no cars and karts on course at the same time.
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Larry MacLeod · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject:

Its true the rules don't prevent it, but I would advise serious caution to any starter trying to blend cars with karts.

As a kart driver, I have sat at the line a LOT longer than the starter wanted me to, just because I didn't feel it was safe. I don't want a kart to be in the exit path of a car. I have seen too many wheels come off cars and too many cars go backwards through the course because the driver got lost to even take a chance with my own life. Because I can't control the car behind me, but I do peek over at other parts of the course if I think there might a car coming.

The only problem with clearing the course completely is the PR problem with other drivers thinking you're getting "special" treatment as a kart driver. I understand this can be a pain, but also the administrators shouldn't feel obligated to put cars/karts too close together. The SSS should be properly educated and make a sound judgement with erring on the side of safety when it comes to mixing them together.

Larry
SSS, FJ Steward, FJ parent and F125 driver
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Christian Hubbell · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject:

I'm okay with running at the same time as cars but there can be some totally clueless people at locals so the danger is real. The first karter should give some extra room regardless of when the starter says to go and ask for a little room if there is a car behind him. On the other hand I have almost been ran over by another kart at a Pro so who knows.

Scott Boito · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject:

We run with the cars in Philly and I've never felt that I was in danger. But like Lefty, I dictate when I leave the line. And usually we have 4-8 karts now and we just run the course faster, so there are no issues with the karts being seen as receiving special attention.

It may also help that I've been involved as a Chief with the region for many years. And the Solo chair also runs a kart, so we don't have such issues.
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Danny Kao · Joined: 17 Nov 2008 Posts: 192

I have run with cars in Philly and the divisionals at the Finger Lakes. To be honest, it always felt a little hairy at Warminster (Philly) with the cars since it's an old runway.

In DC we have anywhere from 6 to 17 F125s(KM) at each event. We do not mix cars with karts and we are very strict about that for safety reasons. DC has a "non-written local rule" that there is no co-driving for points. We launch first driver in the front of the kart line and 2nd driver goes to the end of the kart line when 1st driver returns. Karts are gridded in kart grids with the Juniors.

I am consider an "Old" karter. (old in age, that is) I am also a SSS. I would feel more comfortable if karts and cars don't mix. I realize it's a few more minutes here and there; but if you got run over by a car, then it immediately puts the entire event (and the karter) in jeopardy. I would think wait a few seconds and make sure everyone is safe would be the right way to go even though the macho side in me says it's no problem. Wink

JMHO.

Eric Clements · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:34 am Post subject:

CalClub runs F125 (KM) with Pax, Prepared, and Mod cars. Hoping that the more experienced drivers in the upper level classes won't be driving the course backwards! Fj runs in their own small group from a separate grid.

KM generally grids off to the side of the main grid. When pulling up in line the grid chief or KM driver/Co-driver will make sure the following car sees/understands a kart is in front of them.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:16 pm Post subject:

You mean a car would accidentally miss the blue cloud of smoke and the sound of a choking walrus?

Sorry I'm in one of those moods. Laughing

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Jared Langenfeld · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:50 am Post subject:

In Kansas City, we run the FJC and FJB at the beginning of the event before the cars start running. The FJA gets run at the beginning of whatever heat with no cars moving in grid. While F125 is intermixed with the cars. Usually we (F125) grid ourselves at the front of the heat, but we have been in the middle before. There are usually 3-4 F125 karts at each event and we are sent onto course with the normal flow of the heat.
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