Dodged a bullet

Joe Ricard · Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: Dodged a bullet

I suspect this may be typical for new FJ kart parents. We bought a used Raptor off Evil bay during the 1st year of our karting craze. Been sitting on the shelf while we explored the restrictied WF and another Raptor.

Decided to pull the ebay motor off the shelf and bring it to life. Opened the side cover looked stock to me except an older ARC rod. and I have no idea how to tell what a stock raptor cam profile looks like but it matched to the other one we had.
Button it up and run it on gas. Holy crap it rips!!!!!!!!!

6 months later (this past weekend) we finally killed it. pulled it apart and found a JE short skirt piston and the rod was longer than stock when matched up side by side.

So I am sort of glad we blew it up before taking it to a national event and getting DQ'ed cuz I didn't know any better.

I seen my Raptor rule book request to the KAC has been reviewed. So now it is time to get me something as I need to rebuild it. TO THE RULE BOOK.

Anyway I know these type of engines are probably more plentyful than we might think. any new junior kart dad could very easily make this same mistake. so be careful out there.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Danny Kao · Joined: 17 Nov 2008 Posts: 192

Hey Joe,

It's not a secret that KAC has been working on a spec engine proposal for the past few months, and we are very close to submit the finish product for member comment after our Feb meeting. There will be a sunset rule in place so the Raptor still has a place to play at the Nats this and next year; but for how much longer I am not sure, and most likely there will be an additional weight penalty on the Raptor, Rotax and KT during the sunset period.

For local competitions, other then the added weight penalty, there is no issue to continue running the Raptor based on what's proposed so far.

So just as a heads up that if the rebuild is for National competition, the use of the Raptor will be limited to the next few years. (1-4 years depending on KAC/SEB's consensus) We are very sensitive about how much money parents have to put in for the kids to run in Juniors; the last thing we want to see is you put lots of money in rebuilding a Raptor but ended up running in a limited competition life and in a less competitive package.

Don't shoot the messenger... Wink

Larry MacLeod · Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject:

Joe Ricard · Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject:

You are kidding me. add more weight to the packages to make them less desireable? How does that make sense?

All I was asking for was a set of rules from what ever format the KAC chooses. Tell us what rule set the Raptor should be built to and leave it as an option for micro kids to use. if a 110 pound FJB driver chooses a Raptor so be it. But to add a metric butt ton of lead to a cadet chassis is not acceptable to me.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Danny Kao · Joined: 17 Nov 2008 Posts: 192

Dale Seeley · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:12 am Post subject:

My question for Briggs is, "What are they going to do for the club to thank the club for making their engine the spec engine for up to 7 years of a families participation, more if there are multiple kids in the family?"

Did someone bring my "pro/con" letter posted here to the meeting? I tried to submit it a few times but it never worked out. Just wondering, no harm if it didn't make it through.

Andrew Peppler · Joined: 08 Aug 2010 Posts: 90

Wow, I guess it was just me and 1 other person who sent the not recommended letters.

Robbie Nelson · Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 131

Joe Ricard · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject:

So glad some rich SOB decided to build a sprint track 100 miles from my house.

We have been wearing out grooves in the road traveling there. Nola Motorsports park.

We are not racing officially but still having a blast burning gas and kart tires. (and a couple engines) Sad

10x more fun than spending a weekend in a parking lot.

Don't care what motor you or your kid has on the kart just run it and have fun. Still collect a gaggle of kids in the RV around a Playstation when the other groups are running. THATS FUN FOR US.

We will pick a class this year and start working our way up from the back till the fun runs out. Wink

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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Pete Schaible · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject:

I personally am against the whole spec motor concept. I personally think the objective should be to get all the kids we can into the formula Jr program. I see a spec motor program as alienating the kids that are interested but not commited. My wife, daughter, and I attended our first National tour last year. My daughter loves spending time with the other kids but isn't as interested in the fierce competition aspect. If she was not able to compete because she didn't have a spec motor none of us would attend another National Event. We autocross as a family.
From what I have seen at events participation is down, it doesn't seem rational to alienate existing participants. We run multiple different engines in the shifter kart class for adults but we need one specific motor for the kids? As a primarily regional competitor I was a little anxious about attending National events but it didn't require anything special other than 2 days and higher entry fees. If I had to spend the money on a new motor too to try a National tour it would never have happend.
If a parent thinks a motor has an advantage they can choose to run it. Why should all the others parents have to pay for it?

Dale Seeley · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject:

Joe Ricard · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject:

Absolu=freaking-lutely Dale.
I go to National events to win and I suspect my son would like to do well also. Well maybe win at a video game, but everyone likes to win.

If you go back to the original post I dimed myself out after discovering my "thought to be legal motor" was fairly far from it. At least how I would interpret WKA (one of many) rule sets for a Raptor.

SO does the KAC have there ears on? Do not raise the weights on the undesireable soon to be obsolete motors. That is what my "members comment will say when I write it.

It will also say the WF must be sealed and the throttle on FB be controled with longer throttle slide as opposed to .475 restrictor plug.
Because when you run a WF on the pointy end with a restrictor it won't last long. Ask MY engine builder. WF is all he does.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Brian Garfield · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:59 pm Post subject:

Joe, in the process of making the BWF spec, the JB motor HAS to run a slide, already been determined, the old restrictor was not an option.

I completely agree that weights on the current motors should NOT change one pound. Firstly, because I think that's a ridiculous idea, and secondly because the BWF is already a top competitive motor in JA, and will be the motor to have in JB with a correct restrictor. There is no reason to change weights.

The BWF, IMO, should only be required at National events, nothing should change without a long sunset rule for Regional events, at least 3-4yrs.
And yes, Briggs should step up strongly if they're going to get this much business for a motor that is not relatively Nationally popular.

I am no longer on the KAC, so my letter will be written on my opinions as well.

Brian

PS: Joe, you'll be getting the response you need (KAC is done with it), once it finishes going through the chain of command...

Joe Ricard · Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:59 am Post subject:

Thanks Brian.

one Raptor block is at the machinist last night. it's going to be totally stock with re-sleeve stock rod and stock piston. Be fine for our lapping days or play in regional parking lots if the bug arises.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Steve Ekstrand · Joined: 15 Dec 2008 Posts: 6

The KAC dealt with the problem backwards.

They failed to fix the BWF with the impossible restrictor. It was a known problem from the start. Different slide options have been available from Briggs. I don't get why this was so hard. And why we continue to wait for the fix. If the BWF had been a viable option for FJB we would have bought one. But we needed an engine now, not when the KAC then the SEB then the BoD finally fixed. Now we are heavily invested in the KT100, so I have very mixed feelings about moving towards spec BWF.

With battery and starter the BWF is a heavy package. My kid will never make min weight with it in a couple of years. But if tag is one of the goals, the battery and starter won't be optional, so we can't save weight there. And I can imagine adding will be. Tough sell, if we are trying to weight penalize the legacy motors.

And the of course.... Why was the cheap,sealed LO206 dismissed. In my mind that is the single perfect autocross junior package.