Nov. Fastrack. Let the weight complaints begin

Dale Seeley · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:15 am Post subject:

My letter to the SEB hasn't been written yet, because I don't really know if I am for it, or against it. I suppose that it wouldn't have to be an either/or letter to possibly be useful, but when lines form, I don't want to leave myself in no-mans land Confused

We've been sprintracing for about 7 or 8 years now, all over the southeast, and I've only seen one WF engine in our travels before attending Nationals this year. That WF was not at the sprint track though, a local Dad bought it to run unrestricted in FJB in hopes of keeping up with Jesse in his Comer80.

Another local Dad almost bought one, to replace the Clone so that they could attend the NT's in Dixie and Atlanta, but the closest one (other than the one already autocrossing) we could find, for sale or otherwise, was in South Carolina, having been part of a household move from California, and considered useless for sprint racing out here. Rather than spend the $750 on an engine that came without any support at all, he bought a Raptor from the local kart shop that was much cheaper, but is still being raced on dirt ovals in the area.

Requiring a spec engine is going to eliminate some FJ attendance at the Nationals events, even with a 4 or 5 year phase-in. Most of the current crop of participants are going to keep running what they have, and either graduate to F125/cars before the switch-over, or take a year or two off when it happens and play football instead. Buying a WF to run a couple events isn't going to be in most peoples FJ budget.

If there is an effort to make sure that all new FJ drivers get a WF, starting in 2012, a phase-in will work. But, that means making sure the WF is the overdog engine in both classes.

Having a spec engine will solve at lot of problems at the National level as well. This year in FJB, there was a hub-bub about a Raptor, and in FJA, there was a lot of consternation in the TownHall about our Rotax, and during the event from a few parents and an Op Steward. That could have all be avoided if everyone was running the spec engine, and there was a trained, non-participant, tech person who knew what the engines were supposed to look like inside and out.

I like the low maintenance clutch on the WF, the clutch was my big deterrent from running a KT at Nationals this year, I was a lot more comfortable with the Rotax. The WF clutch isn't the same as the Rotax, I'm not saying that, but it's not based on friction plates that self-destruct the first time you make a mistake in adjustment or power application.

Our local dad doesn't use the electric start on his WF, the cost and trouble of hooking it up is too much for him to be bothered with, but the engine doesn't stall on course either.

The JB version needs a different way to restrict the engine. B&S needs to make a new slide for the carb (assuming it is a slide carb, haven't been that close to one) that restricts the throttle, or put a spacer in the carb to restrict the throttle slide, like Rotax uses for it's MicroMax. Throttle stops outside the carb, bad idea, I've met FJB dads before. They mean well, and their kids can handle it... Laughing

I think that the biggest benefit of a spec engine, being able to significantly lower the minimum weight of both classes.

Most people in Solo are not like me (fortunately I suppose). We sprintrace, and have no problem buying or borrowing (Thanks Rick and Raceway Motorsports) the engines and chassis's that we agree are correct for the classes we race, and for Solo. Most people have one engine, and when they are told it is obsolete, give up on progress and the driver suffers for it.

That brings us back to my initial issue with a spec engine being brought to Solo, convincing new people to run a slower engine against the established teams with KT100's, and convincing the teams without WF engines to buy one for National events.

Anyone can list Pro's and Con's, argue minutia, and generally be negative, optimistic, a politician, or downright difficult for no apparent reason. Solutions are the tricky part.

If I were King of FJ, I would accept the proposal in FasTrack and possibly even be a little disappointed that the phase-in is not 2014 or 2015. But, that would be contingent on my negotiations with B&S Racing (Hey Adam) for them to help us with the proposed transition. Because we'd be spec'ing their engine, I would hope to convince them that it would be worth their investment to provide 10 JB and 10 JA config engines (WF or LO206) to the SCCA to loan to all competitors at National Events (first come, first serve) who do not already have their own WF to run.

A lot of Junior Karter parents aren't able to retrofit a 4cycle to their kart at an event, and that's where having eithe B&S support at the event, or a local kart shop there to provide services and parts (engine mounts, throttle cables, 35 sprockets and chain, etc) would be essential.

If that could be accomplished, it would encourage the "serious" Junior Karter parents to move to WF early, but because they had an opportunity to try it out at their local NT or Pro, they would be more likely to stay with the sport. The less likely to be able to buy a WF would not be excluded from National Events either.

At the end of the Phase-In process, the loaner engines could be sold or donated to the membership, low hours, only driven in a parking lot on Sundays.... Laughing

maybe I should have just written a letter...

Brian Garfield · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:27 am Post subject:

Yes...you should... Smile

Brian

Danny Kao · Joined: 17 Nov 2008 Posts: 192

Hi Dale, I think this is the perfect letter, could you please send it in so the committee and SEB can share this?

Thank you for the insights and suggestions. It was a pleasure to read. Smile

Dale Seeley · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject:

Feel free to copy/paste it into a letter, I tried twice and ended up submititng empty text boxes...
It would let me fill out my info, but the textboxt was off-limits

Robbie Nelson · Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 131

I just bought the chassis that Jesse Seeley ran at Nationals with a KT100 mounted to it. It "was" ready to run in FJB and I "had" plans to bring my two kids to Nationals next year. I had to fight with the wife to buy it. There's no way I'm going to be able to convince her that I now have to buy a new engine.

I'm not against a spec engine. However, I believe a future date of requirement would make it much easier to stomach. Say... 2013 or 2014 Nationals?

Why I chose a KT100 for my FJB kart:
1. What I was hearing about the WF and the restrictor in FJB.
2. It was less expensive.
3. 14 out of 23 FJ drivers at Nationals were running KT100s (4/23 for the WF)

Anyone wanna buy a KT100? Oh, yeah, wrong forum to sell it in, right?

Maybe I should write a letter as well.

Dale Seeley · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:18 am Post subject:

Now I can't find the request for member feedback on a spec engine for FJ, so I'm going to claim a certain bit of ignorance and hearsay when responding to Robbie.

It's my understanding that the "spec engine" would not be required until 2016, I'm fairly certain that is correct for Regional/Divisional events, and there is also a grace period incorporated for National events. At least I hope I remember it correctly, or the field might only have 3 or 4 drivers next year.

Brian Garfield · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:39 am Post subject:

It's not ANY year yet... We're looking for member feedback on the possibility of 2016. Most responses have said "yes" and want to make it happen sooner. As the only one on the KAC with kids involved, both with KT's, I'm in no hurry, but do see some of the value to it.
Write letters, and remember, everything you read is not necessarily brought about by the KAC...we're just a sub-committee.

Robbie Nelson · Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 131

Thanks for clearing that up for me. It makes my Monday less painful. Smile

Danny Kao · Joined: 17 Nov 2008 Posts: 192

To echo what Brian said: KAC is just a sub-committee of a "big committee". We cater to the karting related letters from the members, and we bring up what we see as a necessary to keep the competition fair and safe, and sometimes we are advised to look into the rule set by the SEB. I guess we are the House of Representatives, the letters are the constituents, SEB are the senators. We propose the rules based on the constituents and we are forced to modified by the law by the senators or the president. (Why do I feel slimy and corrupted all of a sudden? Rolling Eyes

)

All kidding aside, the original proposal was to phase in the spec motor rule by 2016, which is 4-5 years away. (The world might ended up by then, who knows) There are letters and other proposals to move up the time frame earlier because it's so far out. Please remember your letters, whether is for, against, or a simple FYI, would not only help the KAC to propose the right solution, it would also help the SEB to approve or veto the decision. A letter like Dale's is perfect because it would educate the non-karting world folks on what we are really dealing with, rather than "I am not going to pay for another motor". I don't mean this in the negative way because I don't want to pay for something because somebody tells me I need do, I am just suggesting that proposing a solution like Dale's really shows we are working towards solving a problem, and not adding more headaches. JMHO.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject:

Well I know you have my letter because Brian Harmer auto sent me a reply.

My vote was made.

Now waiting for a response so I can get in the right line of motor builders. EitherFJB WF which needs rebuild. orGas Raptor which will need all the tricks done.

Now that it is off season for Flat head oval karts there is a long line for the good builder. Getting a motor back before Dixie NT would be nice.
_________________
Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 471

The link to the latest Fastrack is here:

http://www.scca.com:8080/assets/11-fastrack-oct-solo.pdf

It kind of looks as though the original topic line of this thread no longer applies to the content of most of the posts, other than the "Out for member comment" issue of a Spec motor for FJ.

About that, I have no real stong feelings one way or the other. All our family's experience in the FJ classes have been with 4-cycle power, not necessarily because of any aversion to the KT-100. It just worked out that way. I really think there should be strong arguments on both sides of the issue filed with the SEB's letter system, but AFAIK, there has been not much said yet in favor of maintaining the current multi-engine structure.

Dale wrote a lot on both sides of the issue, and identified one factor that is certainly notable: The motors used in Kart racing in different parts of the country vary greatly, and what is to be found locally at what many parents would consider a reasonable cost may not match up with what the SCCA feels is proper for National competition in FJ. There is one comment though: