Nashville Road Tour

Jason Vehige · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: Nashville Road Tour

Just registered... I see Trey, Dan Cole, and Newman on the entry list. Anyone else planing to some out, Might be your last chance to run the "infield" at NSS for a while thanks to recent announcements about the tracks future....
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Jason Vehige

08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204

Trey Davis · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject:

Jason, do you know if the speeds will be autocross speeds or will we need to change gearing?
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05CRG/99Honda

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 471

I'm itching to go to that event. But if I did it would be as an arrive and drive guy, I think. My old friend Dan Cole has been bugging me to come down and drive his kart, but I reqlly question whether I'd fit in it. He is a slightly shorter version of McLeod's shape, and I'm not. Maybe I could bum a ride from Mr. Newman if I can actually get there, and not get into the CRG's seat?

Just daydreaming at this point, work to do here first!

Jason Vehige · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:12 am Post subject:

Alan,

I think you would fit in Dan's kart... it's also a CRG ... a very very very clean well kept one at that !! Would love to have you come down. I am sure we can find you a seat...

Trey,

The speeds are supposed to be in the normal autocross range... that said I will be prepared to gear a bit faster just in-case.

Cool

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Jason Vehige

08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204

James Newman · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:55 am Post subject:

Alan, if you show up, you are certainly welcome to drive with me.
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#35 AS, SCCA WDCR

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 471

Obviously I am not going to make it this weekend. I'll be watching from the sidelines. You all have a great time!

The end of the season here in Michigan is always a tough time for me. Sad

Tom Reynolds · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:16 am Post subject:

Time to fire up ustream tomorrow. Please post when you guys will run roughly on here or Facebook please.

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 471

A bit painful to listen to, due to large breaks in the action. Have never heard of having drive through/pace laps at a Tour before. Obviously the course was long (karts running FTD @ over a minute) Very Happy

but still.....

Also heard there were a couple of incidents. Not good. some people just don't know where the limit is.... Sad

May listen again tomorrow, sounds like the guys are having fun, wish I was there! Going to be a lonnnggg winter.

Brian Garfield · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:40 am Post subject:

Sorry, started this discussion elsewhere, don't agree that it's the "people" that don't know their limits. It's the organization for holding an event on a track...big no no. I can't even blame course design or safety, they simply don't have a choice.

Autocrossers autocross because they drive 110% sometimes with no issues. If you need to dial it back because of a wall, then it's not an autocross anymore. Don't sell it as one. Saying that you know what you're signing up for is not correct either. We never see the courses prior to arriving at the event, and in many cases, can't see the size of the facility or specs to know that a course won't properly fit.

What you're saying is that it becomes "who can dial it back the least amount and still be fast."

They always try to put a slalom on a straight away with little runoff, bad move, particularly when it's a high speed slalom.

Brian

Dan Cyr · Joined: 08 May 2006 Posts: 39

Brian Garfield · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:08 am Post subject:

It's not hindsight from me... WDCR 2000, we used to run at Summit Point. I didn't like it back then, but wasn't aware of how bad it could get. At four events that year, I went off the track one time at 3 of 4 events. I was winning those events, but skirting the edge to do so. I never suffered worse than the need for an alignment, but even THAT is more than I should have to repair from an autocross.

Unfortunately, several cars in one event suffered MUCH worse. That was the end of road courses for WDCR, and I quite honestly would have never expected National to go this route.

I made my point above, but I'll restate: We should not be expected to back off purely for course design/location, particularly when it's planned ahead (understood if something changes at an event).

This is just like setting up a finish that requires braking before you cross the timing lights so you don't hit something...

Brian

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 471

Brian and Dan are of course correct, that one of the tenets of the sport in SCCA is that drivers should be able to run flat out without the risks involved in many other forms of motorsports. Lay it all on the line, and if I make a mistake, nothing bad will happen.

A couple of years ago, my oldest friend had an "off" at Nelson Ledges when attending a track day on his VFR, and spent a night in the local hospital. He wrote off a bike he really liked, and luckily escaped serious injury. As he recounted the experience, my reaction must have seemed negative, inducing him to ask if I was criticizing him. I replied that he was right, I was certainly doing that, for pushing beyond the limits he was capable of handling, at a venue which had no margin for error. Then I told him that is a primary reason why I autocross instead of track racing, because I can let it all hang out, and there is so much less risk to me and the machine. The safety margin is so much larger, and the liklihood of any issue so much lower.

That said, the driver in autocross is NEVER relieved of the responsibility for his or her own safety. Read the waiver sometime. I have been around this sport since my father and older brother ran gymkahnas in the 60's. While rare in the grand scheme of things statistically, incidents can and do happen, even under ideal conditions. A small percentage of those are due to mechanical failure. The vast majority are the result of driver error. Although the club has been long heading in the direction of minimizing risks via buffer zones from fixed objects, course designs, etc., there is no such thing as a 100% safe autocross, anywhere.

If I thought back to what I have witnessed over the decades, the number of stories would count beyond the number of digits I have on hands and feet. I can recall only five which were the result of a mechanical failure. Three of those were a lost wheel (the most recent at the Toledo Tour/NSC) which only damaged the car a bit. A fourth was a stuck throttle in a Mod car, which caused injury to car and driver, and the fifth was a suspension failure which caused severe damage to the car.

All the rest that I can recall right now were the result of a driver who either:
A. Did not, for at least a moment, understand the physics involved as related to the capabilities of his vehicle in a corner.
B. Failed to recognize or admit that he had exceeded the "limits" or capabilities of the car and give up on the run in order to regain or maintain control of the vehicle.

I'm talking about cars which were rolled over via only the driver's inputs. I'm talking about solid objects sufficiently far off course being hit for no good reason other than pure driver error. I'm thinking about drivers who seemed to freeze at the wheel and go well outside a course boundary to find something to run into. I'm recalling several instances of a loss of control, made so much worse by aggressive attempts at recovering/continuing/saving the run. One of those cost the region I was Executive of, access to a site for nearly two decades. Realistically, once the first mistake is made, and a car gets out of shape, the time will be trash anyway. Some people just can't seem to adopt an "I blew it" attitude at the moment of decision where the risk is greatest, and write off the run, endangering self and the car instead.

The demise of street events came about naturally, since the risks were increasingly seen as too great for the level of preparation, security, and acceptable liability. They were fun, I thought. Yes, stuff happened. See points A. and B. above for mostly why.

I read Sammy's FB note that Dan posted and see his concern. Yet I also get the feeling that he recognized the dangers which were perhaps higher than we are used to, and drove accordingly. I am not at Nashville, so I can only speculate that there was at least one driver who failed in that regard. Does that mean that the site or it's use was inherently unfit for a Tour? I can't draw that conclusion from this far away.

Perhaps at registration there should be a questionaire to be filled out:

Are you insane? [ ] Yes [ ] No

Are you willing to pay $100 to risk severely damaging your vehicle for a $15 trophy? [ ] Yes [ ] No

If you lose control of your car, will that trophy be worth dramatically increasing the risk? [ ] Yes [ ] No

Anyone who checks the yes box to the last question should not be allowed to participate. Yes answers to the other two are okay.

Alan

(no hate mail, please, the last bit is a joke!)

Trey Davis · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject:

I had a great time, but it was not like any autocross I have ever done. There were sections where you couldn't see over an elevation change. That was weird, but I've never tracked before. Overall I think it was pretty safe, but I bet National will never do another one.
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05CRG/99Honda

Jason Vehige · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:28 am Post subject:

For me Saturday was pretty fun, the course was good but lacked flow IMHO..... aside from the AM fog, and the S2k problem. I was working at the time, but did not see it directly. Sunday I thought the course was great!! and thanks to borrowing Kevin Burch's rear tires I had a good last run (for some reason my set of Hoosier rears (New at Nats) were near "cord" after less than 30 runs!!!

I never felt unsafe but will admit that I was very aware what a big muck up in the slalom could result in. BTW I was geared one tooth up on the motor side (for about 75) compared to my "normal" all purpose auto-x gear (about 70).

I will have some video of Sunday up soon... Alan you should have come out... it really was a Blast!! Cool

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Jason Vehige

08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204

Jason Vehige · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:51 am Post subject:

http://youtu.be/qgvcMYHN__k

Enjoy Cool

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Jason Vehige

08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204