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Todd Snider
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 607
Location: United States, Arizona, gilbert
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:02 pm Post subject: WF Jackshaft set up |
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I'm considering the purchase of a 2005 gen 1 world formula for $500. It has low time and has been sitting since ~ 06/07. Couple of questions - 1) Is there any advantage to the new ignition systems? 2) Generally speaking - how far off are stock motors from blueprinted? 3) Is it legal to use a bolt on block support for this weaker gen 1 block rather than purchasing a new gen5 block and rebuilding? Looks like faster motors has a block support for $29.
Thx,
Todd
Last edited by Todd Snider on Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1995
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Hi Todd,
Hope things are going well down there in AZ, I understand you finally have a 4 cycle class 
To answer your questions....
1. Yes, but you can cheat (disconnect the rev limiter) with the old style although I know you wouldn't do that 
2. I can usually find 1.5 to 2 hp from blueprinting depending on where the dimensions are originally. Yes there is something there but many people have won races and championships with stock motors.
3. I don't know, haven't seen anything in the rulebook about it. You'll have to ask tech (Bernie?).
I would think the $500 is a little steep for a used WF. Siting doesn't improve motors like it does for wine  I would want to go through it anyway regardless of how few hours it has.
Give me a call sometime, I'd like to catch up on AZ happenings. The shop phone is 231-264-8707.
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Gen 1 World Formula |
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| Todd Snider wrote: | I'm considering the purchase of a 2005 gen 1 world formula for $500. It has low time and has been sitting since ~ 06/07. Couple of questions - 1) Is there any advantage to the new ignition systems? 2) Generally speaking - how far off are stock motors from blueprinted? 3) Is it legal to use a bolt on block support for this weaker gen 1 block rather than purchasing a new gen5 block and rebuilding? Looks like faster motors has a block support for $29.
Thx,
Todd |
Todd , just some general info. There are a couple of WF's running at PKRA with the old ignition. Just to get the class going they are allowed to run but IKF rules do require the new ignition. One older engine that was using the old ignition had the rev limiter unhooked and it expired. The worst part of the old ignition is the cast iron flywheel,especially without the rev limiter.
You can use a bolt on block support , such as Faster Motors Chain cover / support but the early blocks are weakest on the flywheel side.
The best bp'd WF I've seen is around a1.6 hp pickup. Most of the races at PKRA have been won by a good driver ( many ) in my daughters kart using my cast off tires and an out of the box untouched engine. Go figure !
Get in touch with me and I'll give you a more comprehensive low down. We have nearly 20 WF's in the area , just have to get them out on the same day. Sept. races should have a high kart count. Bernie
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Todd Snider
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 607
Location: United States, Arizona, gilbert
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the info, glad I asked. So ignition is another $130. I looked up the block on the Briggs website and I see a cylinder (which is the block) and the cylinder cover. Bernie - are you saying the cylinder cover is the weak part? Are these interchangeable between generations? |
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Craig Drabik
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 73
Location: United States, New York, Buffalo
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| The old blocks can crack, if I remember right at the bottom rear of the engine near where the engine mount screws in. |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Todd Snider wrote: | | Thanks for the info, glad I asked. So ignition is another $130. I looked up the block on the Briggs website and I see a cylinder (which is the block) and the cylinder cover. Bernie - are you saying the cylinder cover is the weak part? Are these interchangeable between generations? |
NO , THE CYL. ( CRANKCASE ) COVER IS NOT A PROBLEM. Oops , didn't mean to capitalize that ! The early blocks are the weak part. As far as I know the cyl. covers are all the same.
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Todd Snider
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 607
Location: United States, Arizona, gilbert
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Ok - thanks again for all the comments. Hope everyone is doing well. |
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Todd Snider
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 607
Location: United States, Arizona, gilbert
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Has anyone run a jackshaft set up competitively? I've not run one before and am wondering if the extra rotating parts make a noticeable drop in performance. I have a chassis to use - but don't want to modify the cross bar. If you have one used - I'm looking. |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Todd Snider wrote: | | Has anyone run a jackshaft set up competitively? I've not run one before and am wondering if the extra rotating parts make a noticeable drop in performance. I have a chassis to use - but don't want to modify the cross bar. If you have one used - I'm looking. |
Todd , the Biesse kart I have advertised on the PKRA website has a Burris jackshaft on it. Chris McMurry drove it in a race one night and set the fastest WF lap time I've ever seen at PKRA. Keeping in mind that he has a bit of experience, he never sat in the kart before the first heat race. The jackshaft,despite adding a little compexity to the package had no noticeable negative effect on performance.
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Todd Snider
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 607
Location: United States, Arizona, gilbert
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Bernie -
That's good to know - I will keep my eye out for one. I picked up a KT this weekend for a good price and am going to put the kart together in prep for some cooler weather. Still interested in the WF - just haven't seen any deals like the ones Eric sold a while back (I knew I should have bought one of those). Have the itch to do some racing so I'll run the KT for a bit while looking for a WF.
Todd |
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Mike Burris
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 574
Location: United States, California, Huntington Beach
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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From my understanding, the newer ignition module will not bolt up to the Gen 1 block. The mount holes are supposed to be different.
Our WF is Gen 2, the ignition/flyhweel swap was straight-forward. Gotta love that motor, so many autocrosses, lap days at Pt. Pelee and BeaverRun tracks, fun as hell to drive, and does not wear me out like the shifter!  |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1995
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Yep, the mounting holes are different. I made up an adapter one time and should still have the pattern if anyone needs it.
But, it's really not worth the effort. Run the old style coil and if you're worried about the cast iron flywheel a JR Racecar billet Animal flywheel should bolt right up.
Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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