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Steve Buckner
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 839
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 Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Q: What should I do when installing my RCE pipe?
The RCE T3 125cc pipe is designed to mount with a standard CR125 rubber isolator from the uppermost coolant housing bolt. NEVER MOUNT A PIPE RIGIDLY. Breakage will occur nearly immediately. Also, mount the silencer with some compliance (ie, rubber washer type mount) The RCE R8 80cc pipe mounts with a spring type cradle in a standard manner. |
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Mike Goebel
Joined: 28 Jul 2001
Posts: 5765
Location: United States, California, Winnetka
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'm now convinced that the most ridged mounting of both pipe and silencer is the best way to avoid cracking.
Mike G.
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Steve Buckner
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 839
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Chris Hegar
Joined: 25 Jun 2002
Posts: 3529
Location: United States, Oregon, Portland
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Chris Hegar,
One question I have is the point of using either hose clamps or springs for the pipe to cradle interface. I used to use hose clamps until I broke my first pipe ~1-1/2 yrs ago. I've since changed to springs. I've had no problems since but of course they're too many variables to claim that the springs solved the problem.
Thoughts? |
My reply..
| Quote: | We have no less than 300 units in the field with very minimal complaint. It's a crap shoot, to crack or not to crack that is the question.
You really can't determine if it's the chicken or the egg because we all run different tracks with different lines at different speeds, over curbs or around curbs, off track lots or never off track, stacked in the truck on top of each other or protected from everything all the time. |
Show me where you've been and I'll tell you if it should of broken or not. In road race we run 30 minute's straight up or two 20 minute heats not to mention a minimal of 1 hour straight run time practice per day which can be 2 day events or a national that is up to 4 days long on tracks that sometimes should not have karts on them because of how rough a big cars makes it in the braking zones. Among 3 karts with stock moto's we have never broken a pipe mount. Among these same 3 karts we have only seen one pipe crack since we started running the class (I think about 7 years). Pretty good results we think. Our mounts were not on the market for quite a few years before we started selling them. Springs or bands, whatever floats your boat I say. I am thinking about that little pad you guys got though, that might be a nice addition.
We ran the RCE for a long time with the Honda rubber isolator as well, they did crack but it's a stamped pipe so you gotta expect that.
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Chris Hegar
Joined: 25 Jun 2002
Posts: 3529
Location: United States, Oregon, Portland
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry I should of mentioned we are not on the same R4 pipes we started with 7 years ago. Went from the R2 to the R4 then one upgrade to the newer R4 after RLV changed the stinger angle. I think we also swapped to new pipes a few years back because people thought we were cheating because I polished that ugly ass pipe on my Lee wheel. Not trying to pull your rope on run time. How about we all vote to polish these suckers, bring the kart a little better look. I hate the dam rust/WD40 look. I might even do a few of them for my E Karting friends if they ask real sweet like. 
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Mike Goebel
Joined: 28 Jul 2001
Posts: 5765
Location: United States, California, Winnetka
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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No thank you sir as I can polish my own pipe quite well after all these years
Mike G. |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2919
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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joseph hollinger
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 9469
Location: United States, California, san francisco
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Tom Barth wrote: | Ever notice that the KZ (ICC) pipe set-ups rarely crack.
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Proving that pipes that don't get used tend to last longer.
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Roy Montgomery
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 166
Location: United States, Texas, Humble
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| joseph hollinger wrote: | | Tom Barth wrote: | Ever notice that the KZ (ICC) pipe set-ups rarely crack.
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Proving that pipes that don't get used tend to last longer. |
Joseph..........different set up completely!
ICC pipes are well engineered.....The flange is set up on a taper seal so that it has flexibility and stays sealed with no mess and disgruntled customers.
One of you rocket scientist should engineer a tapered flange for the other deal. might solve all of the problems and make yourself a few bucks.
Also they are hand formed and sectioned all the way up to the flange... no machine stamped mass production stuff.... way more expensive.
Last edited by Roy Montgomery on Mon May 23, 2011 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff DeMello
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 2213
Location: United States, Pittsburgh Pa,
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Roy Montgomery wrote: | | joseph hollinger wrote: | | Tom Barth wrote: | Ever notice that the KZ (ICC) pipe set-ups rarely crack.
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Proving that pipes that don't get used tend to last longer. |
Joseph..........different set up completely!
ICC pipes are well engineered.....The flange is set up on a taper seal so that it has flexibility and stays sealed with no mess and disgruntled customers.
One of you rocket scientist should engineer a tapered flange for the other deal. might solve all of the problems and make yourself a few bucks. |
I have never cracked a pipe in over 6 years with my Honda.. I bet some one out there has cracked a KZ pipe 
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Jeff DeMello
Emmick F125 Pavesi |
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Jim McMahon
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 2658
Location: United States, St. Paul,
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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I've never seen or heard of a KZ pipe crack either side of the atlantic in the last 16 years. I'm sure its happened of course, my point is that it appears to be rare. Of course the setups are very different, but I think thats the point!
Seems all too often people have to replace moto pipes because they missed the mount moneyshot or got unlucky on the supporting bracket roulette.
Issues like this really make me think stock moto is an intermediary class, rather than the "future" of shifter karting as its often portrayed. The core concept is good but the implementation is really a bunch of band aid fixes. Personally I'd like to see something thats more like a KZ layout, with electric start, spec pipe, spec silencer, spec (analogic) ignition, spec port timing, cyl vol etc, VHSH30 carb, utilizing common (read less expensive) internals (say from a CR125). The K9ES is close, but the cost of getting a crank rebuilt by a builder puts the $hits up people and the weak dollar isnt helping.
It baffles me that there isn't an alternative out there.
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2919
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Jim McMahon wrote: | Issues like this really make me think stock moto is an intermediary class, rather than the "future" of shifter karting as its often portrayed. The core concept is good but the implementation is really a bunch of band aid fixes. Personally I'd like to see something thats more like a KZ layout, with electric start, spec pipe, spec silencer, spec (analogic) ignition, spec port timing, cyl vol etc, VHSH30 carb, utilizing common (read less expensive) internals (say from a CR125). The K9ES is close, but the cost of getting a crank rebuilt by a builder puts the $hits up people and the weak dollar isnt helping.
It baffles me that there isn't an alternative out there. |
I guess your memory isn't that good.... The whole cost thing with the invasion of ICC's a few years ago, nearly killed the shifter class in the US.
The stock moto (what this thread is about) is what brought it back.
Call Riley Will a call at BRC, search through here he built a set of billet cases with a CR125 bottom, and his own cast cylinders....
Parts cost will always be expensive compared to Honda stuff, it's just the difference in the volume of parts.
There's many choices... You have deep pockets go KZ, you don't go stock Honda, you want Tag, go Rotax???? You want real power and real touchy tuning, build a mod, You want 1/2 a CR, call Riley...
The problem is that there are too many choices. If you look at the CIK model, there's only a few classes, and that's it. There's a International series and a National series, and that's about it. We have WAAAAAYYY too many clubs, with WAAAYYYYY too many classes, and it spreads everything too thin. If we had an east/west, central clubs, with 1/2 dozen classes, everybody would be almost the same stuff, dealers could stock a few different motors and in VOLUME, so the prices would be much better...
I know, it will never happen.... We're greedy American's and we love choices...
CR
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Tom Barth
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Posts: 1379
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Jeff Mello wrote:
| Quote: | | I still won't buy a KZ |
That's why karting has a Honda spec shifter class...for those that have ADD : 
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Tom Barth
http://www.greenflagkarting.com/
Power is good...more power is better... too much power is just right! |
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Tom Barth
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Posts: 1379
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Chris R. wrote:
| Quote: | | They also have very few bends, just one that's less than 90 degrees, besides the stinger. Aren't most of them cone pipes also |
The KZ pipe is a series of cones welded together. The welding is awesome. (We have MiG welded RCE pipes) but the KZ's weld is more like a resistance weld than a gas weld. It is flush with the metal. It is hard to see how they can do all the cones with resistance welding wheels. The metal is thin so resistance welding is a possibility.
I know some components of the RCE pipes started out as stampings. I believe this contributed to cracking because the stampings are really stressed when they come out of the tooling.
Not familiar with the Honda pipe.
"Ya get what pay for"
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Tom Barth
http://www.greenflagkarting.com/
Power is good...more power is better... too much power is just right! |
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Mike Goebel
Joined: 28 Jul 2001
Posts: 5765
Location: United States, California, Winnetka
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Are the stock motocross pipes as fragile as the karting pipes?
Mike G. |
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