Heats vs One 30 minute race (125&80'2)

[Debbie Kuntze]

This little poll is for the 125 and 80 drivers in road race. Which would you prefer:
One 30 minute race - or - the current format of two 20 minute (roughly) heats?

What is your feelings, pro or con to either idea? Any comments?

I ask becasue this issue has been brought up to the RR committee and I don't race the class, so I want to hear from those who do. I will keep a listing here at home of the responses, including your last name and state. (Can't just say, "well I heard" I need back up of the general concenus/masses.

So reply here for all to see your comments or email me privately at KART9899@aol.com

Thanks for your help! Debbie Kuntze

[Charlie Tackett]

Boy, have you opened another can of worms!!

Why don't you ask about CIK vrs bodywork while you are at it!

[Sean Robbins]

I'm admittedly on the wrong coast to be directly affected by this, but I would opt for the two heat races for the following reasons:

* Most enduro races are close for the first few laps, and then most of the karts start spacing out, relegating the rest of the race to feeling more like a long practice session. Having two opportunities to be near the start of the race means more laps of close competition.

* With two heat races, you have the opportunity to adjust the kart to make it more competitive during the second heat, further closing up the competition.

* If you break down in the first heat, you get another chance, again, leading to more time on the track.

* Starts are fun

* If you are good enough to whip everyone's butt in a 30 minute race, you can get twice the satisfaction by running two races!

[David Tallant]

I agree with Sean.

God bless America.

[Charlie Tackett]

Well, not in your area, but I've never been known not to speak up.

If you are indeed only racing in a class of 10-12, they can get spread out over 30", as with any other enduro class. If you want to run in the front pack and be competitive, then I am sorry.....but work harder!! We have spent years running long tracks, have donme extensive testing countless hours of seat time, etc etc. Now you want to handicap us so you can catch up?? What is this? I thought we were talking about racing. You want all the karts to be equal and take driver experience, talent, set-up ability, etc out of the equation...then I am again sorry, but they do have concession tracks where that kind of so-called racing is common place!

Why is it that this class and only this class seems to be the one enduro class that can't handle running 30"? Can't figure out engine tuning, chassis set-up, tier management, etc to make it 30"??? Heck we don't always run up front, but when we don't we usually DNF. That's enduro racing.

[Guido Duerbaum]

Agree with Sean.

[Terry Tilton]

I like the Two 20 minute races. Its more track time than one 30 minute race and beating smart-asses like Charlie twice in the same day doubles the fun!

[Charlie Tackett]

Mr. TIlton Perhaps you could run your kart as good as your mouth? I however have the suspicion you would be anmong those more competitive in a concession kart. A little smily face does not excuse your distateful use of adjuctives. Unfortunately, I am not the moderator of this forum.

[David Cole]

I agree with Charlie. What is enduro racing? It is racing long distance or long amounts of time. At least in the Midwest, we use to run an hour long. If you want to run heat races, run the short track. A half hour on the long tracks is still more track time then you get at most local sprint tracks. I would rather see the time increase but fuel becomes a problem.

There are no do-overers in racing. Practice is the time to tune your kart. I get better results because people can't finish the 30 minutes. It is a test of your equipment and driving ability.

If you want heats, you will get racing like the Winston. Though its not for money, but everyone will try to win it on the first lap. We finally got away from that kind of racing in the midwest and I don't want to see another driver hit a concrete wall like at Mid Ohio.

[Sean Robbins]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Charlie Tackett:
Why is it that this class and only this class seems to be the one enduro class that can't handle running 30"? Can't figure out engine tuning, chassis set-up, tier management, etc to make it 30"???.

---

Charlie, I respectfully disagree. This issue has nothing to do with either "handling" or "figuring out" 30 minutes, but making racing more fun. Taking things to the the other extreme, what would be gained by running "marathon" multi-hour races?

I'd argue that if you looked at most enduro races, on average very few positions are changed in the second 15 minutes (with the possible exclusion of mechanical breakdowns).

[Charlie Tackett]

First of all, Shawn, my reply wasn't directed at you personally. Many others have brought up this make the racing closer issue. You just hapend to bring it up this time.

Around here, where 30-60+ kart fields are common, almost everybody is racing with somebody, even on 2+ mile tracks. As for close racing after 30", I could give you dozens of examples. At BlackHawk, I think the top 5-6 were seprated by less than .7sec at the finish and there were multiple position changes everylap. At RA, the combined margins of victory for the two days was less then 0.1 sec. If I count right, on the last lap on Sunday, there were over 9 passes and four lead changes between Ted, Chris, Travis and Mark...yes, all on the last lap!!! Sure their has been a race or two that that doesn't happen, but it happens as often as not.

More fun, closer racing? SOunds more like a Rotax Max class. Stopping the "race" to bunch up the field, IMHO, is ridiculous. I don't like it when NASCR has those "debri" on the track yellows, etc. That ain't racing.We all race under the same rules.

What is any road race organization going to do when every other class has drivers demanding multiple heats so the can bunch up the class so they can be competitive? Why don't driver's in all the other classes demand the same treatment? I'm not joking here! What do you think the DMSS, Woodbridge, or the WKA would do if every other class requested the same treatment as this one class that only makes up 10-20% of all their races? Are you ready to deal with that situation in the DMSS, Dave?

Use the reason that with 20" heats you get more track time, but don't use the reason that it makes for better racing because it makes some more competitive! I still stand by my first comment, this is racing. If three karts break out into a lead pack and start running away and the rest get spread out, it is up to those who got left behind to work harder at doing better, without having to rely on a flagman to stop the race for them to be able to close up. Again, this is racing, and close racing is fun and exciting, but close racing should be a result of equality of performance and not artificially induced.

Maybe SKUSA should start having intermissions in their ProMoto Finals so somebody might be able to keep up with Scott?????? Say, a full course yellow ewvery 5 laps? Would that keep it close?

[John Barnum]

Here in the Northwest, our 80cc clas varies from 15 to 27 drivers. The 125cc class average over 20+. This is all based upon two 15 minute heat races for the 125cc and a 30 minute race for the 80cc. If you add up all the shifter driver entries over the two days, they make a big portion of the income. Let's not rock the boat. Matter of fact, we here have the pleasure of the 125cc international class races with the 80cc for a 30 minute race and then the 125 Moto class races again separately. So the 125 drivers are getting both heat races and a 30 minute race depending upon the race format of either a one day race or the two race format. Personally I agree with Charlie, 30 minutes because you need a tire management, consistant driving for more than a couple minutes, use drafting to keep with the pack and a race plan which will place you at the front at the end.
John Barnum

[Charlie Tackett]

John, there's a potential resolution!.....Sprint enduro bodywork runs 30", CIK, runs heats. Now all they have to do around here is get the other 300-500 drivers to go along wiht them!

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Tackett ]

[Debbie Kuntze]

OK Gentlemen, no name calling or adjectives.
I dind't open the can of worms though, someone else did. I don't race the class, heck I race one hour long ones, so I am not a good one to vote on this issue without input. That's why I have come to the forum and why I am not asking for affilition, because I don't care if you are IKF, WKA, KART or whatever. I want to hear from those who drive 125's and 80's. Same idea as the proposal to do away with the slippy pipe. What do others race so we are all on the same page and everyone is happy?

As of this post for your information between responses here and those sent to me privately, it is 2 to 1 for heats.

Thanks for your comments. Debbie K
(keep sending them!)

[Marc Miller]

OK-

Here is my take and I will not resort to negativity....hehe

A RACE is a race. NASCAR, CART, IRL, F1 all have a set schedule. A race has 1 winner. I have won races because others went out, I have lost races due to mechanicals.... that is part of it.

I feel that with the practice time that is given, and the fact that many series qualify, then there should be one race to decide the winner. Besides, if you run 2 heats, you can still break in one and be completely out of it. Furthermore, if I finish first and third and another guy finishes first and third, then another guy finishes 2nd both times, I find it hard to decide who won, all drivers did a fine job, but there is no clear winner. Seems like a typical "old school" karting mentality that everyone should get to win. Works great for some things, like all the kids that compete get a ribbon, hehe, but I take my racing seriously... if I finished third, that's where I finished - regardless if I THOUGHT I could have won.

If any racing series was like that (2 heats-equal points), I doubt anyone would be nearly as interested.

My .02

MM