Tragic Accident at Summit Point

[Henrik Thun Rasmussen]

I still have my set of dap mechanical brakes in a box I would set up a mechanical system so that if you lose hydraulic pressure the pedal would only move a little before applying the secondary mechanical system and you would only need the mechanical system to slow you down a little just to get off the track I also agree with the air pillows and post race brake inspection and maybee spec brake hardware comming from one place. And locking up a 250 on the top end without a sprag or clutch must be a nightmare. Turn five also needs attention secondary to the turn at the end of the straight Ive both seen and herd of people going straight across the grass and almost headon into people coming out of the carose I also saw a kart go across that feild so fast it hit a bump and went into the air like it just went off a ramp. the gravel and sand traps seem only good for flipping a kart should you end up in there or the kart would simply skip across it like skipping a stone on water karts don't have enough weight or ground clearance to make use of them it and last if you went straight into an air bag in an enduro i think you might just go right under need it youd almost have to dig a hole a couple feet down to sink it a little so you would hit the center on not wedge the bottom Thanks HTR

[Mike Young]

As a new karter I have been following this post just to understand how I may avoid any potential accidents in my racing future. People have been writing about adding a mechanical brake to use in the event of primary brake failure. In looking at my sprint kart it looks a though it would be pretty simple to add another master cylinder mounted the opposite way ( so that a lever could be attached and you would just pull back to apply the brake) and another brake caliper and disc. As I said, I don't race enduros and know nothing about there chassis design so I don't know that this would work or not but is just an idea.

[Bill Wharton]

I wrote one of the origianl responses to this post "discussion". I see that lots of people are interested in throwing their 2 cents in. This "discussion" will have a happier ending because it will the way we look at saftey in the future. Lets start improving it now.

Here is what I have found out regarding Information on Barrier Bags and Cubes.
Derby Industries
24350 St. Rd. 23 South
Southbend, IN 46614
219-233-4500
David Karafa

Barrier Bag 2 X 4 X 8 $ 200.00 60#
Barrier Cubes 2 X 4 X 8 $ 300.00 ?? 80#
Both available in Red, Yellow, Blue

I understand that these are very, very effective. I can forward via fax the information which I have received.

I don't think that we can push the track or race promoters to purchase these things,store them, transport them, set them up, etc.. We could however, get with our series promoter and say I'm going to buy 2 of these bags, I'll bring them to the races, I'll set them up and take them home. Will you let me use them? If one 10th of the people did this we could increase the safety at our tracks immediately, with no burden to the people who are already doing all the work to put the race on. It's ultimately our responsiblity to protect ourselves and our children. Do a local fund raiser, get a sponser to pay for the bag and put their name on, add a 1 bag cost to your Kart list for next year. I don't know how I will get the bag to the track (5X8 trailer), I don't what we will give up in order to get it,(tires,clutch, entry fee at 2 or 3 races)I do know that somehow you will see some of these bags along the walls where my son races next year. Lets get together and improve the saftey of our sport by doing something, and get it in place now.
You can contact me directly.
Bill Wharton
319-363-4445 x310 Days
319-365-3814 Nights

will bwharton@telemanager.net

[PFabien]

You noted that both the "bags" and "cubes" have the same dimensions (2 X 4 X 8) - - was that a typo?

I think you have an excellent idea. Thanks for taking-on the task of contacting these companies, etc.

Would you mind forwarding me the link to their website? pzf@honigman.com

[Andy Coffey]

It's great to see a real determination to see greater safety at your karting events, I've watched people sweep safety issues under the carpet for years.
So keep up your efforts and don't let my comments below put you off doing it.
Our products would make a tremendous change to the levels of safety in the sport, though no barriers are miralce workers. If you're trying to decelerate a driver in (in our case) 40 inches or so in a direct 90deg impact, there is only so much you can do before deceleration rates get too high. We are never going to satisfactorily decelerate a 100mph impact speed. So it is essential to keep working at other improvements such as your discussion about brake regulations.
The other critical thing to remember is that the getting of a safety barrier, whatever type it is, is only the first part of the battle - it must be installed and installed properly. Poor safety or poorly installed safety which won't work properly is worse that no safety at all as drivers' behaviour is based on what they see and if they see safety barriers in place they expect them to work.
We have found that safety barriers that are kept at one track and are the responsibility of one person work best and are installed properly. If people are dependent on people carting barriers around for them, if usually the safety turns up, if barriers are not cared for properly, connected by people who know what they're doing etc., then it is inviting disaster. Portable systems can work and work really well, but they are expensive to organize properly with a truck and a team to install and manage them. However it's the only way to do it properly.
So whatever you do be sure that you have the systems in place to make it work properly.
Good luck.
Andy Coffey

[Mike Weaver]

Here's my "other" 2 cents. I have seen the Derby crash bags and pillows "in action". I have also had a number of well respected racers tell me they're great. The karts hit them, are slowed and stopped and have little or no damage. Almost sounds like a dream.

Note: this experience was all on a sprint track. The speeds are significantly higher in road racing.

[Phil Clements]

Mike, I think you just hit the nail in the head. What works on a sprint track may not be enough or may cause other safety issues when placed on an enduro course. In the latest incident, speeds of well over 130 mph were involved. I think the above mentioned barriers are worth looking into. But, tests should be done in similar racing conditions. For example, I never seen a bike go off course and driver and bike stay below 24" off the ground. In my sprint enduro, the top of my helmet is only about 27". In that situation, what's to keep the kart from going under the "Fence" with little or no resistance.

Just adding a little more food for thought. The one thing we don't need to do is "React" and end up curing one problem only to create another potentially worse.

[Bob Chiras]

Philip is correct on this issue.

We need real engineering data to make moves relating to safety. I would like to see the karting organizations come together and pledge financial support for some real analysis. I know that many of us would provide support and would even sign up to do fund raising for a real program which provided karting with barriers which reduced or eliminated injuries.

It scares me that we could wind up with barriers that are less effective than what exists today.