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Joe Brizzolara
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 506
Location: United States, New Jersey,
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 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| The old style clutch should last a season for sprint racing without attention. The old clutch will last a day in road racing (maybe). From what I can see, the new style clutch can last multiple weekends or maybe a whole season in road racing. i have two new style clutches on order and have a ton of old style clutch parts for sale. I've become a believer in the new style clucth for sure. |
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Eric Alexander
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 126
Location: United States, North Carolina, Mooresville Motorplex
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Brian Degulis wrote: | Hello all We just got a very low time kart with Rotax max it's an 05 engine with 15 minutes time on it. Of course it has the old style clutch and gears. Should I replace them now or just use it until the old clutch starts failing.
Just to be certain this upgrade does not involve breaking the seal so it's something we can do ourselves right?
Thanks
Brian |
The old-style clutch is simply a poor design. The clutch backing plate has three pins that accept the clutch shoes. These pins are prone to breaking. And when I say prone, I mean you will break one of these pins eventually. At this point the backing plate must be replaced.
The new clutch is very robust. The clutch is made of a single machined disk. The clutch attaches to the backing plate via three bolts. Its basically bullet-proof.
When you make the change is up to you. But its a good idea to purchase the update kit so when your old clutch does break (and it will) you can go ahead and update it.
The kit comes with steel balance gears that will replace the old-style plastic gears. Your gear oil amount changes from 50cc to 100cc. So remember that. But the change-over is fairly easy (if you have the tools to remove the clutch) and will not require breaking your seals. |
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 454
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: |
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OK so I bought the clutch/gear upgrade kit and did the job. When the new clutch engages it chatters and vibrates. It's fine when it's dis engaged or fully engaged it's just while it engaging. I've gone over my work and it's a pretty simple job so I can't see where I did anything wrong.
I've taken the drum off and cleaned the drum and disc up with some fine paper and that changed nothing. Everything looks fine yet it's still feels and sounds wrong. Has anyone run into this? Is there a breakin period?
BTW if I spray a little WD40 in the drum it works perfectly.
Brian |
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Keith Buffo
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 307
Location: United States, Massachusetts, Stoneham
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Are the shoes fully tightened onto the flywheel?
The shoe disk doesn't easily nest onto the raised area on the center of the flywheel. It can take some patience to tighten those three bolts a bit at a time, working your way around, to get it flat and even. Eventually you will feel the shoe disk sock down.
All that said, do take care not to be too much of a he-man as the bolts can snap if overtightened, or the disk isn't even. Not the end of the world because you can thread the broken bit in or out, but tedious. (Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything.)
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 454
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Yes I checked that it's seated torqued and spinning true
Brian |
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Curtis Cooksey
Advertiser
Joined: 16 Aug 2001
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:37 am Post subject: clutch |
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Brian, I think that is just how the clutch sounds.
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Peter Zambos
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 554
Location: United States, Illinois, near Chicago
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Granted, I never used the old clutch, so I can't speak to how they feel during their engagement period. That being said, Brian, I've never had any feeling of chattering or vibration during engagement. I also accomplish this without any lubricant.  |
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 454
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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It's not how it supposed to sound. There are lots of Rotax karts by us and they don't sound like this. It's not a little different if this kart was leaving the grid you be saying what the hell is that noise!!! I've got a call in to the supplier.
The strange thing is I just don't see anything wrong.
Brian |
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Chad Landers
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 305
Location: United States, Wisconsin, Plover
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Brian, how long have you ran this new clutch? If I remember right my new style clutch chattered the first few times I ran it. Kinda like the old briggs flat head days with a Noram or spring type dry clutch.
If it doesn't do it with a little wd40 I would bet the drum has a high spot. Maybe you can have someone hit it with a lathe.
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 454
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Not long at all maybe 20 minutes total.
Brian |
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Chad Landers
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 305
Location: United States, Wisconsin, Plover
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Are you sure you lined up the metal gears correctly? They also sound a little louder and more metal sounding than the old style plastic gears.
I would run it a little longer and see if it goes away. But if it sound really bad to you don't do it.
If wd40 quiets it I would bet the drum has a high spot or one of the shoes is hitting before the others.
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 454
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Yes the gears are lined up checked and re checked. The clutch is seated on the starter gear and both the starter gear and clutch are spinning true. The drum is within a few thousands of round.
The Rotax tech also recomended running it a little more.
Brian |
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Nick Weil
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1801
Location: United States, Florida, Orlando, FL US of A
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Brizzolara wrote: | | The old style clutch should last a season for sprint racing without attention. The old clutch will last a day in road racing (maybe). From what I can see, the new style clutch can last multiple weekends or maybe a whole season in road racing. i have two new style clutches on order and have a ton of old style clutch parts for sale. I've become a believer in the new style clucth for sure. |
Wow... I'll have to tell all my road racing Rotax customers they should be buying a lot more clutches. I just replaced a 4 season old clutch for a customer prior to Daytona. He road races most of the eastern WKA events, as well as all of the Southern Kart Club races.
Clutch replacements have a lot to do with driving style, how often you spin and stress the whole drivetrain, how often you balance your wheels, how straight your axle is, if your wheels are bent, etc. Any one of those conditions will shorten the life of a clutch... I do sell new clutches to CERTAIN customers like clockwork, other customers don't even know the clutch is replaceable other than word of mouth. Coincidence?
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Nick Weil
Authorized Rotax Service Center and Dealer since 2002
2004 Team USA Rotax Worlds Finals DD-2 Driver
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Joe Brizzolara
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 506
Location: United States, New Jersey,
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info Neil. I didn't realize that out of balance wheels or axles could cause clutch failure.
Mostly I was breaking the pins on the starter gear with the old style clutch. Sometimes multiple pins in a weekend.
I'm looking forward to trying the new style clutch this season.
quote="Nick Weil"] | Joe Brizzolara wrote: | | The old style clutch should last a season for sprint racing without attention. The old clutch will last a day in road racing (maybe). From what I can see, the new style clutch can last multiple weekends or maybe a whole season in road racing. i have two new style clutches on order and have a ton of old style clutch parts for sale. I've become a believer in the new style clucth for sure. |
Wow... I'll have to tell all my road racing Rotax customers they should be buying a lot more clutches. I just replaced a 4 season old clutch for a customer prior to Daytona. He road races most of the eastern WKA events, as well as all of the Southern Kart Club races.
Clutch replacements have a lot to do with driving style, how often you spin and stress the whole drivetrain, how often you balance your wheels, how straight your axle is, if your wheels are bent, etc. Any one of those conditions will shorten the life of a clutch... I do sell new clutches to CERTAIN customers like clockwork, other customers don't even know the clutch is replaceable other than word of mouth. Coincidence?[/quote] |
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