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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 349
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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 Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: CR125 Doesn't Spin Freely in Neutral |
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I am just wrapping up my full rebuild and got the motor on the chassis and chain connected. This is where I noticed that in neutral, there is quite a bit of resistance. Shifts through all gears, but in neutral it doesn't spin free. It isn't turning the motor over in neutral, so I know it isn't engaged.
I haven't put oil back in the motor yet, could that be the problem? Is this normal or should I pull it all apart again? |
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Michael Taksa
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1401
Location: United States, Massachusetts, Boston
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Brake the connecting link in chain and spin the sprocket on the motor, if it spins freely, your problem is not in motor, spin the axle, if it binds your problem is there, if it spins freely, it's the chain that is the problem, do you have some slack in chain? |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 349
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I went ahead and pulled the motor back apart. Once I loosened the case bolts the output shaft spun freely in neutral. Looks like it is shimmed too tight on the countershaft. The last thrust washer on the countershaft that goes between second gear and the bearing is not an oem thrust washer. Per the parts diagram it is supped to be 1.5mm thick, this is almost 3mm. Not sure why, but is was in my other cases and worked fine. Both cases are 98/99. Now it is too tight? Slightly confused here. |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 349
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I am an idiot. Figured it out. I had switched the washer that goes between the inner clutch basket and the outer with the countershaft thrust washer..... |
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 417
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:28 am Post subject: |
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Not true idiots never aknowledge they're own mistakes.
Brian |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 349
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Brian Degulis wrote: | Not true idiots never aknowledge they're own mistakes.
Brian |
Hah, true that. I am just glad I figured it out. Also really glad I noticed something was wrong before I tried running it  |
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Allen Lowe
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 13
Location: United States, California, Petaluma
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The last thrust washer on the countershaft that goes between second gear and the bearing is not an oem thrust washer. Per the parts diagram it is supped to be 1.5mm thick, this is almost 3mm. Not sure why, but is was in my other cases and worked fine. |
Tyson, you might want to look at this thread about the two different length main shafts Honda used for the 6 speed gearbox. This might help answer the question about the the thick thrust washer. You might have an older, pre 96, gearbox in a 98/99 case. It's my understanding that the 95 gearbox works fine in the 98/99 cases but you need to add the extra shim to take up the space.
HTH
allen
http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=106772&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gearbox&start=15 |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2933
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Allen Lowe wrote: | | Quote: | | The last thrust washer on the countershaft that goes between second gear and the bearing is not an oem thrust washer. Per the parts diagram it is supped to be 1.5mm thick, this is almost 3mm. Not sure why, but is was in my other cases and worked fine. |
Tyson, you might want to look at this thread about the two different length main shafts Honda used for the 6 speed gearbox. This might help answer the question about the the thick thrust washer. You might have an older, pre 96, gearbox in a 98/99 case. It's my understanding that the 95 gearbox works fine in the 98/99 cases but you need to add the extra shim to take up the space.
HTH
allen
http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=106772&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gearbox&start=15 |
Or for a minimal cost have a professional assemble it and not worry about it....
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 349
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Allen Lowe wrote: | | Quote: | | The last thrust washer on the countershaft that goes between second gear and the bearing is not an oem thrust washer. Per the parts diagram it is supped to be 1.5mm thick, this is almost 3mm. Not sure why, but is was in my other cases and worked fine. |
Tyson, you might want to look at this thread about the two different length main shafts Honda used for the 6 speed gearbox. This might help answer the question about the the thick thrust washer. You might have an older, pre 96, gearbox in a 98/99 case. It's my understanding that the 95 gearbox works fine in the 98/99 cases but you need to add the extra shim to take up the space.
HTH
allen
http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=106772&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gearbox&start=15 |
Thank you, I have already read that. The washer I had misplaced was actually on the countershaft. Although, that thread did lead to a bit of confusion on my part because when I saw that the washer was thicker than it was supposed to be I just assumed it was because of this. Well, I wasn't thinking it through very well at the time,because, as I said, I wasn't even working with the mainshaft. |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 349
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | | Allen Lowe wrote: | | Quote: | | The last thrust washer on the countershaft that goes between second gear and the bearing is not an oem thrust washer. Per the parts diagram it is supped to be 1.5mm thick, this is almost 3mm. Not sure why, but is was in my other cases and worked fine. |
Tyson, you might want to look at this thread about the two different length main shafts Honda used for the 6 speed gearbox. This might help answer the question about the the thick thrust washer. You might have an older, pre 96, gearbox in a 98/99 case. It's my understanding that the 95 gearbox works fine in the 98/99 cases but you need to add the extra shim to take up the space.
HTH
allen
http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=106772&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gearbox&start=15 |
Or for a minimal cost have a professional assemble it and not worry about it....
CR |
That is certainly great advice for a lot of people. For me, no. I am fully capable of doing absolutely anything myself on a kart. And probably fully capable of doing most anything else for that matter.
Also, what isn't mentioned enough is the invaluable lessons you learn from doing things yourself. The fact that I do EVERYTHING on my kart has helped me to understand a great deal in a relatively short period of time. Had I just hired a shop to take care of everything, it would of taken years to gather the knowledge I have acquired. How did YOU learn? |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2933
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Tyson Henry wrote: |
That is certainly great advice for a lot of people. For me, no. I am fully capable of doing absolutely anything myself on a kart. And probably fully capable of doing most anything else for that matter.
Also, what isn't mentioned enough is the invaluable lessons you learn from doing things yourself. The fact that I do EVERYTHING on my kart has helped me to understand a great deal in a relatively short period of time. Had I just hired a shop to take care of everything, it would of taken years to gather the knowledge I have acquired. How did YOU learn? |
No I agree, there's something to said about the satisfaction you get from doing something yourself, but did you do it right? Was it the done in a manner that will make it faster? There's another thread about buying a used kart. If you buy a lump and plan on cleaning it up and setting it up, do you realize how much time it takes to get it setup right, if you ever do?
There's a name you might know Swedetech, he builds stock moto engines, there's a reason why his stuff is fast, he doesn't just randomly assemble them.... Building motors is a lot more than assembling the parts correctly....
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 349
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | | Tyson Henry wrote: |
That is certainly great advice for a lot of people. For me, no. I am fully capable of doing absolutely anything myself on a kart. And probably fully capable of doing most anything else for that matter.
Also, what isn't mentioned enough is the invaluable lessons you learn from doing things yourself. The fact that I do EVERYTHING on my kart has helped me to understand a great deal in a relatively short period of time. Had I just hired a shop to take care of everything, it would of taken years to gather the knowledge I have acquired. How did YOU learn? |
No I agree, there's something to said about the satisfaction you get from doing something yourself, but did you do it right? Was it the done in a manner that will make it faster? There's another thread about buying a used kart. If you buy a lump and plan on cleaning it up and setting it up, do you realize how much time it takes to get it setup right, if you ever do?
There's a name you might know Swedetech, he builds stock moto engines, there's a reason why his stuff is fast, he doesn't just randomly assemble them.... Building motors is a lot more than assembling the parts correctly....
CR |
Absolutely agree. And, if I were looking to run up front at a regional or national level, then I *might* shell out the money for a swedetech motor. But, just from this past club race it was pretty obvious I wasn't down on power from the big name guys with swedetech motors. I was most certainly slower, but that had more to do with a really bad chassis setup and lack of skill behind the wheel. Down the straights was ok though 
Did I put it together right? All indications seem to lead to that conclusion. Runs fantastic. Can start it with a hand spin of the wheel. Clutch engages butter smooth. Shifts cleanly and easily, etc....
Building motors is a lot more than assembling the parts correctly....
I guess this is my only point of contention. What exactly can a motor builder do, within the rules, to make more power. If you have to use all oem parts, have a select few other auxiliary parts to choose from, what do you do besides make sure everything is meticulously put together? Honest question here. What are some things you think they do to have an edge?
With all of that said, I still think you are right. A lot of people would probably be better off hiring someone to do their work. |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2933
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Tyson Henry wrote: |
Did I put it together right? |
The first time? No I don't think you did, or you wouldn't have started this and several other threads.
When you asked about what can be done to a stock motor legally to make it faster, just consider how many parts are in there, and after you have assembled them a few hundred times, you get an idea on how to do it better....
You can learn just about anything from reading and posting on the internet, but you can't learn experience or common sense.....
Best of luck to you.....
BTW I have very reasonable rates for assembling a bottom end to a complete motor, I can even dyno test it before it leaves the shop. Please PM me if anybody is interested.
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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Matt Dixon
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 532
Location: United States, California, Norcal
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Tyson Henry wrote: | | What exactly can a motor builder do, within the rules, to make more power. If you have to use all oem parts, have a select few other auxiliary parts to choose from, what do you do besides make sure everything is meticulously put together? What are some things you think they do to have an edge? |
If I told you Reine would have to kill me... 
_________________
Matt Dixon
94y Energy Corse/Swedetech |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 349
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | | Tyson Henry wrote: |
Did I put it together right? |
The first time? No I don't think you did, or you wouldn't have started this and several other threads.
When you asked about what can be done to a stock motor legally to make it faster, just consider how many parts are in there, and after you have assembled them a few hundred times, you get an idea on how to do it better....
You can learn just about anything from reading and posting on the internet, but you can't learn experience or common sense.....
Best of luck to you.....
BTW I have very reasonable rates for assembling a bottom end to a complete motor, I can even dyno test it before it leaves the shop. Please PM me if anybody is interested.
CR |
Best of luck to you and your motor building business and dyno services. Hope you can help out loads of people without experience and common sense. As for me, I have plenty of common sense and I am working on the experience.
I regretted making this thread an hour and a half after I made it. Don't know why I ever even ask for help on this forum. |
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