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Jaime Cardenas
Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 26
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: Driving Techniques |
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A couple of months ago I took a 2 hour driving class on a Birel Rotax kart. The driving coach told me that I turn in too quickly and don't give the inside rear tire enough time to lift off the ground. He said I should turn the wheel more slowly to correct for that. Is this something that can be helped with kart setup? Or is my driving style just wrong (slow)? Is there a "proper" or best driving style?
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Jaime |
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TJ Koyen
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 1453
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: |
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There are lots of driving styles that will work in karting.
Karting is about smoothness and momentum usually, but you can be quick if you're snappy on the wheel too. It just might take a bit of adjustment in setup to compensate for that.
A driver who tends to be more aggressive on the wheel might want to run a bit narrower front end, less caster, and less stiff torsion bar to slow the kart's reaction down. I find mostly the problem with drivers who yank on the wheel is that they get the kart to lift way too hard and then they have to chase the rear end and saw the wheel through the corner. If you slow your hands down, this solves the problem. Otherwise, you can make some of the adjustments I mentioned to take front grip away and lessen the effect of your aggressive steering inputs.
I've had teammates over the years who were pretty aggressive on the wheel whereas I'm smoother and we always were within a couple tenths of each other but I always ran more caster and a wider front than them. _________________ T.J. Koyen
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Jim McMahon
Joined: 07 Apr 2007 Posts: 2778 Location: United States, St. Paul,
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Racing is part art and part science. Like TJ says, there are lots of styles that work. Usually the coaching is designed to make sure you avoid bad habits and develop good base techniques. Its only meant to be a base, from there you will develop your own style. I will say that I feel the more versatile your style, the better. Then you can pick and choose your techniques to adapt to track conditions.
Watch Pantano #152 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU4V6kNdIiqSx692be-l0qmA&v=p6gxPvrAn4k&feature=player_detailpage#t=143s
Science\textbook\armchair\youtube expert drivers will tell you this style won't work.
It's not that simple. _________________ CES Grattan pre-entry is open. TaG, Shifter, KPV, KT100, Animal\LO206, enduro or superkart.
Click Here to enter Grattan online |
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Jaime Cardenas
Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 26
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the replies. That is what happens. I turn the wheel and the rear steps out a bit and then I correct by turning the other way. It always seems like the turn is arriving too quickly so I turn the wheel quickly so I don't miss the apex. How do you turn the wheel gradually, but quickly so you make the turn and don't upset the rear? |
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Peter Zambos
Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 554 Location: United States, Illinois, near Chicago
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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The real answer is practice. No one likes to hear it, but there is very little that can ever take the place of seat time.
Now, you could change the points on your pitman arm to slow down the steering rate. Here's a pic of the pitman arm on a typical steering shaft:
If you move the tie-rod ends up on the pitman arm, you will slow down the input you give to the steering wheel. |
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TJ Koyen
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 1453
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaime Cardenas wrote: | | Thanks for the replies. That is what happens. I turn the wheel and the rear steps out a bit and then I correct by turning the other way. It always seems like the turn is arriving too quickly so I turn the wheel quickly so I don't miss the apex. How do you turn the wheel gradually, but quickly so you make the turn and don't upset the rear? |
It's good that you've got an understanding of how the kart is reacting to your inputs.
As Peter said, the only way to improve your feeling for this is seat time. It sounds like you're just not used to the corner approach yet and haven't gotten comfortable with the limits of the kart.
Over time you'll learn that if you turn in earlier but have more gradual inputs, you'll apex at the same point but the kart will be much easier to predict and won't want to step out on your as much.
The kart can only do what you tell it to. So if you turn quickly, it'll react quickly. If you slow down all your inputs, you won't step over the traction limit and you'll maintain a nice roll through the corner. _________________ T.J. Koyen
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012 Posts: 454 Location: United States, Florida,
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Try to get out when the track is empty or as close to it as you can get. Then do lots of laps slowly runing the best lines you can. Then gradualy speed up without losing the lines. Momentum and good geometry beats being overly agressive every time. What your doing will beat you up and cost you time. First learn how to drive then learn how to drive fast. Do this before you adjust a kart that works for other drivers.
I'm no expert in fact I've only been at it around 6 months. I'm only sharing what've I've learned from others and on my own so take it for whatever you think it's worth.
Brian |
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mike clements
Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 267 Location: United States, Arizona, San Tan Valley
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:50 am Post subject: |
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The really fast guys I have seen racing karts have a few things in common. For one, they are so smooth that you can hardly see their hands move.
Another thing, they are always W.O.T. before they get to the center of the turn. These were American drivers.
The faster European drivers are more Kamakazie. They drive horribly fast into the corners with the rear tires locked up. They tend to man-handle and Throw the kart around.
Very interesting styles. Kind of like comparing NASCAR to the World Rally Championship Series. _________________ Began kart racing 1959. Made many friends along the way. |
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TJ Koyen
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 1453
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| mike clements wrote: | The really fast guys I have seen racing karts have a few things in common. For one, they are so smooth that you can hardly see their hands move.
Another thing, they are always W.O.T. before they get to the center of the turn. These were American drivers.
The faster European drivers are more Kamakazie. They drive horribly fast into the corners with the rear tires locked up. They tend to man-handle and Throw the kart around.
Very interesting styles. Kind of like comparing NASCAR to the World Rally Championship Series. |
I grew up watching Brandon Adkins, Corey Reeves, Tony Jump etc. drive with the first style you mentioned. Super smooth, very little hand movement, hands on top of the wheel. I modeled my driving after that style for a long time with my hands on top of the wheel.
The Euro guys from the 90s were very aggressive with the wheel like you mentioned, though now with KF, the smooth driving style is more common because of the lack of bottom end on the KF engine. They still are more aggressive on the wheel than many of the classic American drivers though.
A mixture of many styles is probably best. One style won't work well on every corner. And if you watch a modern TaG national race, the front guys are very much a mixture of driving styles. They may lean more on the smooth or more on the aggressive side, but it isn't so cut and dry. Wehrheim is a good example. _________________ T.J. Koyen
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Brent Harper
Joined: 30 Mar 2003 Posts: 892 Location: United States, Texas, Lubbock
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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If you are watching Euro drivers throwing the kart around then you are watching some very old footage. Many of the top drivers today may be very deliberate and quick with the wheel but they are very smooth, period. As T.J. said, nowadays you cannot get away throwing the kart around like in the past. _________________ SWISS HUTLESS SWISS I/CMC ROTAX |
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