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Racer Johnson
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 116
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 Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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ahhh the ole harrison reinhardt battle, always a good read. I think superkarts probably put just as much force on a rim as any karting application. (ive been behind guys like ryen miller and other pilots that really really lay it in a corner sideways and the outer rim is literally touching the ground from sidewall flex, ive stared right at it while racing thinking, how is that staying on??) if your ribbed bead lock works then great, but I want a few races of guys trying them before im fully convinced....
-Eric Johnson |
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Anthony Williams
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 267
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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I am curious about who makes these wheels - they look very similar to Douglas wheels - who by the way make good wheels.
However, I remember a few years ago a friend of mine showed up at a race with some wheels that looked just like these on his 250 and ripped the rear hubs of the wheel right out - needless to say he went off the track and luckily he was ok!
He showed up at another race with the same wheels but this time the center hub was much thicker which fixed the problem. Since that time my friend packed it in and I have not seen those wheels again on a 250!
I too have seen what Eric described in his post and I would definitely not run any wheel without a bead lock in place! |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2922
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Ian Harrison wrote: | | technology of which I am unaware? |
Thanks always Ian for the load of..........information 
If this is a debate over bead locks or no bead locks, I'm really not going to argue that, if anybody feels more comfortable with them, not a problem, a few tapped holes and it's done. What I am saying is with my experiences with 125's at high speed (Daytona 120mph for nearly 60 seconds per lap for 30 minutes) I haven't had an issue with that type of wheel not using bead locks. I'm also saying that in dirt track where they stretch a 8" tire over a 9" wheel, with the same type wheel, where they probably have a higher side load(similar to what was described about Ryen) there hasn't been any issues.
And as a matter of fact, the ONLY time I HAD to use a bead lock, is when I started using Edwards wheels on my Superkart, and now also with the AMV wheels I use on the 125's. I'm also going to be switching the wheels on the 125's to these spun type as well.
Ross Edwards makes a fine wheel, I believe I have sourced a quality wheel as well.
Ian, if your curious about the wheels, they can be purchased from my European distributor in the UK 
BTW, I'm also a Burris/Edwards dealer as well.....
CR
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East Coast Super Kart Series
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CR2 Motorsports
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Ian Harrison
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain), Manchester
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Hi Chris
The wheels you offer do look attractive, that's for sure (and easy to keep clean!!).
I would certainly give them a go if they passed my criteria and I am interested to know who your European distributor in the UK is!! Oh and of course the right price!! After all they don't have to travel as far as an Edwards to land here in the UK!!
If you want a crack at selling karts over here, you certainly need to get one out on track and with a good driver.
We don't have the option of running without any beadlocks on the rear and I know some guys (like Sam, I guess?) even run them on the 5" wide fronts, although we don't.
I'm by no means saying Edwards are fantastic and everything else is crap!! I just don't have the info to make a judgement (yet????), but of course Edwards is everywhere you look.
Just out of interest the specs for Edwards are:
6" x 5"
Weight (no beadlocks) - 0.77kg (1.7lbs)
Thickness of flange at clamping point - 7.5mm (0.3" decimal inches  )
Thickness of rim at beadlock point - 5mm (0.2")
6" x 8"
Weight (with 6 x beadlocks) - 0.95kg (2.1lbs)
Thickness of flange at clamping point - 7.5mm (0.3")
Thickness of rim at beadlock point - 5mm (0.2")
As you can see the rim has an increased thickness on the ledge that takes the bead screws
Best Regards
Ian
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Ian Harrison
Viper Racing UK
www.viper-racinguk.co.uk
sales@viper-racinguk.co.uk
+44 7984 225 564
+44 161 343 2009
Championship winning Superkart race team 1997-2012 |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2922
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I know what you're saying buddy, everybody uses Ross' wheels, because nobody else makes a 6" kart wheel anymore!!!
We have lots of circle track karts that use 6" wheels, so that's where I'm at.
Drop me a PM, I'll give you the contact info.
CR
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East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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Erik Frank
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 839
Location: United States, Texas, Fort Worth
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Reinhardt,
Do the math....you *NEED* beadlocks. The centrifugal force from the (bias ply) tire carcass expanding radially at high speeds draws the bead inwards. You simply cannot rely on friction to retain the bead seal. A positive retention feature like a beadlock is mandatory to ensure a good safe race.
-erik
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Erik Frank
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 839
Location: United States, Texas, Fort Worth
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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(dupe post deleted)
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2922
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Erik, this has been discussed at length, I guess you missed it?
I HAVE run non bead lock spun aluminum wheels on a 125 kart at 120 mph at Daytona around the oval for close to 60 seconds flat out without a failure.
Nascar ran 200+ at Talldega without any kind of bead lock screw on a bias ply tire. It depends on how it's done...
That being said, the rules mandate such bead lock screws, so the wheels I posted will be use by me for evaluation...
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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alan speyrer
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 1329
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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the thread title says "superkart wheels" yet the entire discussion is based on the useage of these wheels in a 125 application. i have two sets of "superkart wheels" both sets have beadlocks, 250cc superkarts are at least 130lbs heavier than a 125, and with some "american drivers" i bet these 250 Superkarts tip the scales at just over 500lbs! 
so beadlocks all the way around for safety.
| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | Erik, this has been discussed at length, I guess you missed it?
I HAVE run non bead lock spun aluminum wheels on a 125 kart at 120 mph at Daytona around the oval for close to 60 seconds flat out without a failure.
Nascar ran 200+ at Talldega without any kind of bead lock screw on a bias ply tire. It depends on how it's done...
That being said, the rules mandate such bead lock screws, so the wheels I posted will be use by me for evaluation...
CR |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2922
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| alan speyrer wrote: | the thread title says "superkart wheels" yet the entire discussion is based on the useage of these wheels in a 125 application. i have two sets of "superkart wheels" both sets have beadlocks, 250cc superkarts are at least 130lbs heavier than a 125, and with some "american drivers" i bet these 250 Superkarts tip the scales at just over 500lbs!
so beadlocks all the way around for safety.
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Alan, the whole thread is about 250 wheels, my experience with the non bead lock rim is with 125's and they scaled around 410# at the time, and I know there are some "Merican" 250's that tip the scales around 450#. I've already stated that the wheels will be evaluated, not sure what your point is????
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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alan speyrer
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 1329
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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my point is heavier 250 superkarts need to have the beadlock screws in all the wheels, for safety, and cause the rules say so.
| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | | alan speyrer wrote: | the thread title says "superkart wheels" yet the entire discussion is based on the useage of these wheels in a 125 application. i have two sets of "superkart wheels" both sets have beadlocks, 250cc superkarts are at least 130lbs heavier than a 125, and with some "american drivers" i bet these 250 Superkarts tip the scales at just over 500lbs!
so beadlocks all the way around for safety.
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Alan, the whole thread is about 250 wheels, my experience with the non bead lock rim is with 125's and they scaled around 410# at the time, and I know there are some "Merican" 250's that tip the scales around 450#. I've already stated that the wheels will be evaluated, not sure what your point is????
CR |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2922
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| alan speyrer wrote: | my point is heavier 250 superkarts need to have the beadlock screws in all the wheels, for safety, and cause the rules say so.
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I don't have a rule book in front of me, but I don't believe WKA of IKF require bead locks....
Weight really isn't the issue, they're not 10 ply truck tires!!! It's more centrifugal force on the spinning wheel/tire. You can argue that 250 terminal speeds are faster, maybe 10 to 20 mph is about all... But if I can get a 125 wheel to work without bead locks, it will work on a 250...
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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alan speyrer
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 1329
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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will those work on a 250 Superkart?  Probably, but try getting 250 Superkart owners to buy them without beadlocks?
Personally, those wheels look like old style VanK wheels from the late 1980's that were welded together. I doubt any Superkart drivers will buy them.
your best bet is market them to dirt kart racers. |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2922
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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Brian Wilhelm
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 874
Location: United States, Arkansas,
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Erik Frank wrote: | Reinhardt,
Do the math....you *NEED* beadlocks. The centrifugal force from the (bias ply) tire carcass expanding radially at high speeds draws the bead inwards. You simply cannot rely on friction to retain the bead seal. A positive retention feature like a beadlock is mandatory to ensure a good safe race.
-erik |
Simply not true. 145mph at Daytona on an F-125 laydown with no beadlocks, zero tire problems. I've even ran a flat RR there for many laps with no de-beading issues.
Front 5.50 Dunlop SL-4's, Rear 7.10 Dunlop SL-3's, 18lbs pressure, 7 1/2" wheels.
With that being said, I can see a 250 maybe needing beadlocks for cornering, but not for top speed.
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Brian |
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