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veerachart murphy
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 148
Location: United States, Arizona,
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 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert yes I am on this board but we are karters too. So im intentionally hurting myself ? You say your done with karting but this forum your on is eKARTINGnews.com |
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Cory Ross
Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 168
Location: United States, Colorado, El Jebel
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert Reehl wrote: | | veerachart murphy wrote: | And just like purchasing coffee at dunkin donuts you can still enjoy your coffee sitting at Starbucks. At PKRA you are welcome to purchase your yellows anywhere you like and race at PKRA. No body said they had to buy PKRA yellows. Because there is no such thing. We just require yellows ran because of our contract with MG.
No different than Tom requiring whites at his events |
.....and all of this is why most don't stay in karting..including us!
Think about it.
Who benefits from all of these different tire scenarios?
Not the karter.
In my experience the problem is with the long -term kart people,and the people who are on the club boards,who mirror the "Harper Valley PTA"
One more time.
Why do most people leave this sport 2-4 years in?
Because of crap like this. |
So much truth to this. Limit tires by nothing more then durometer. The manufacture is the choice of the racer. The tires used just need to be available to everyone to keep someone from getting an advantage. |
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Robert Reehl
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 116
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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You are missing the point.
MOST people just get wore out with the politics that is go-karting, and quit.
I haven't sold all of my stuff yet, and keep looking on here, and seeing the same crap.
Remember all of the LAKC crap?
That's only one example of what goes on in karting..........every season.
After all of this time, you would think someone who is in the industry,who makes a living fron karting would fix it. |
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Matt Dixon
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 587
Location: United States, California, Norcal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremiah Davis wrote: |
Why should the club or anyone else give a crap what it costs others to race? Please explain to me how that's their responsibility.
Last thing, before I go: if you or anyone else believes you know what it takes to run a club or sit on its Board of Directors, run for election next time it's up. Sit where they sit, make the decisions they make. It's a thankless job nearly all of the time. It's pretty easy to sit in your glass house. But I'd quit throwing stones. |
I guess I can speak up since I put in my tenure on a BoD,
WOW is that how you guys treat your members?
In the time I spend on the Bod we hosted a National event and multiple regionals. Those events generated over %40 of the clubs revenue. The Nationals even more then that, which all went back into the club to improve everything for who... the members. When we hosted a ProKart race the only thing we needed to deal with was the toilets and garbage service, Tom handled everything else and the CLUB cashed the check.
If you think that loosing these races is no big deal for your CLUB you are in denial.Do you think that the members of the CLUB don't have the right to be upset?
This year we are only going to AZ once now and that's Tuscan, a week ago I thought my family of 4 was going to be in Phx at least 8 days. That's some revenue that PRKA just lost to improve things for its Members...
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Matt Dixon
94y Energy Corse/Swedetech |
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Jeremiah Davis
Joined: 18 Dec 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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I never said people should be happy about this situation. No one wanted these races moved. I also never said it wasn't a big deal. I said playing the blame game online won't solve anything, and Mr. Willis is the shining example.
And I don't speak for the BoD of PKRA (because I'm not on it) or anyone else that races there - I speak for myself alone when I ask why anyone else should care what others spend on their racing. It's none of my business, and that's my point - it's not the concern of a club what Joe Karter's budget is or how he chooses to spend his money. Short of providing an across-the-board-affordable place to race, there's not much a club can do for adults with a checkbook.
And remember this: the fee for those national races is not the same for every facility, and might not go as far for some places as it will for another. Along that vein, the logistical costs you mentioned - toilets, garbage, food vendors, etc - aren't the same everywhere. What's profitable in California might not necessarily be profitable in Arizona. Blanket statements can't be applied to this situation. |
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Matt Dixon
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 587
Location: United States, California, Norcal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing is profitable in California anymore... 
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Matt Dixon
94y Energy Corse/Swedetech |
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Stewart Willis
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Jeremiah. You don't know the facts. I do. I am not speculating.
I am interested in the growth and strength of the club. When you make a decision that will now cause 10+ Club members (not rotax) not to attend a race series (not including those coming from out of state), it is a bad decision.
Jeremiah, since you are now the local defender of this decision. What is good about it???
Just answer these questions in public:
1.)What is good about this decision?
2.) How does it benefit the club?
3.) Who does it benefit besides the signer's kart shop of choice [and beneficiary of the contract's distribution rights (for now)]?
4.) Was it worth it?
Like I said before, this does not pass the smell test. The Board did not keep its word to the membership or to Tom, period.
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Stewart Willis |
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Jeremiah Davis
Joined: 18 Dec 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Stewart Willis wrote: | Jeremiah. You don't know the facts. I do. I am not speculating.
Just answer these questions in public:
1.)What is good about this decision?
2.) How does it benefit the club?
3.) Who does it benefit besides the signer's kart shop of choice [and beneficiary of the contract's distribution rights (for now)]?
4.) Was it worth it?
Like I said before, this does not pass the smell test. The Board did not keep its word to the membership or to Tom, period. |
If you know the facts, why bother asking the Board anything at all? And in the grand scheme of a season, losing even 20 racers for two events in a 20-event season isn't going to break the club. What breaks the club is if the consistent, week-to-week racers (which isn't you, by your own admission) stop coming.
1) Nothing, and I never said anything was good about it. In fact, across two forums, I said this situation is regrettable and very unfortunate.
2) Losing races is never beneficial, no. But neither does publicly smearing the club. If the lost dates to SKUSA are replaced with club dates, the club might be able to recoup something, at least.
3) The tire contract PKRA has, according to my understanding (which may be flawed - I don't claim to know everything), benefits both the club and the racers. PKRA gets money for every racer from MG, and MG gives away a set of tires every race day. I'd say that's pretty beneficial, especially for those fortunate souls (such as myself) who are on a very low budget and have gotten lucky enough to win a set. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that all the kart shops only care about making money. Without a club they have no business. Pretty sure shop owners want what's best for the club.
4) Was what worth it? Agreeing to hold the SKUSA race? The race falling through? If you have all the facts - ones you assume I don't - then you should be able to answer that question yourself.
What I do or don't know about the inner-workings of this situation is irrelevant - but unless you developed ESP, you have absolutely no idea what I do or don't know, so don't go assuming. I'm not a shifter, nor a SKUSA racer. But the club I race at is getting blamed and smeared publicly by one of its members without any real proof that you have these facts you say you have. And if you do, in fact, know the facts, then what "smell test" are you referring to? If you know the source of the odor, no reason to administer the test.
I'm not defending any decision that costs racers money. What I'm defending is the club, because you seem hell bent on destroying it via the internet. You clearly don't care about PKRA or racing there, otherwise you'd forego this song and dance. There's a responsible way of having a complaint about the way things are done, and I have a hard time believing raising a fuss here is it. The Board stated plainly that they would tell their side of the story on Monday at the scheduled Board meeting. Why can't we exercise a little patience before jumping to conclusions?
Tell me what the point of throwing out generalizations like "I know the facts! PKRA screwed the racers!" is, Stewart. Tell me what good YOU'VE brought to this situation by being a bully online. My dad told me once when I was a kid that a bully can't stand it when someone stands up to him. And you seem pretty agitated. |
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Kerry Matthews
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 778
Location: United States, California, Sacramento
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremiah Davis wrote: | | What's profitable in California might not necessarily be profitable in Arizona. Blanket statements can't be applied to this situation. |
Matt was on the BoD for a club in Nevada. California has nothing to do with it.
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Stewart Willis
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:18 am Post subject: |
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You are a new member. You havent seen what damage the previous tire deal has done to the club. You say that I am being a bully. But, you are not privy to the private emails that the PKRA forums administrator has sent me. It was the PKRA forum admins that prevented me from speaking my part on the club forums. So, I brought it here.
Bryan personally promised that all offers would be put on the table and considered. That did not happen. Which other importers were contacted and encouraged to participate? The answer is: None! If you knew the history of the previous tire deal and how that went down you would understand my feelings.
I am not smearing the club. I am not hellbent on destroying it. I am criticizing the decision maker and those who came after the fact to defend it. I am trying to show those who hurt the club with bad decisions and broken promises that they will not get a free pass at the expense of the membership.
My loyalty to the club is not measured in how often we race there. My platinum membership speaks for itself. There is a huge population of racers in Phoenix that choose not to race at the club for various reasons. For us, the truth is that there are only two other cadets that are in the same league as my son. The club has done nothing to grow the sport or the races. They have made several decisions (refer to craig logsdon's PKRA post) to discourage air cooled cadet racing at PKRA, whichall of my son's buddys race.
I came into this season excited to race both Micromax and Minirok at PKRA to prepare for the COA and SKUSA races. I am in california right now for work as well as to pick up my MiniRoks, Micromax, and new second chassis that I was intending to race MiniRok on. But, now there is no need for a second chassis because I will not be attending a club series that 6 cadets have decided to skip.
The travel racers test and practice where we race. If we are not racing regional or national events at PKRA, then why would we race club races there in fields of 3 or 4? Its a waste of our time and limited resources. ... and I know you say that it is not the club's concern how much money we spend racing. But, their decision to break a promise has costed a dozen of us thousands of dollars each (Not to mention Pure Karting and Ruthless Motorsports who it will cost tens of thousands of dollars.)
I understand that you like the most races possible at PKRA. I felt that way our first year or two when we were starting out. But, we cannot fit racing a twice a month club race against 2-3 other racers into our schedule every time. We dont have the budget to race everything.
The PKRA schedule that was created this year was great. A bunch of us were super excited to race for the next few months in AZ. But, you have to understand that people's actions have consequences. They have to take responsibility for the decisions they make. Blasting decision makers is not the same as blasting the club.. The only reason that I am on here is because Randy Lyon banned me for the umpteenth time on the PKRA forums for speaking my mind. I do not allow myself to be bullied. I hold people accountable for their words and actions.
You claim to be a journalist, investigate the facts before defending the indefensible. I know you feel like the hero right now by coming to the rescue of the Board. Just remember to own your words. Let me know Monday how they worked out for you. Have a good weekend.
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Stewart Willis |
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veerachart murphy
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 148
Location: United States, Arizona,
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Matt= is that how we treat our members, well yes we make decisions on what we think is the best for the club. No body said that loses theses races won't hurt us. Regretable yes. Tom is still welcome to host them here now and in the future, we would never turn SKUSA away or and large event for that matter. Your conclusion is based on hearsay and bad 2nd and 3rd hand information that is either wrong, incomplete or both. Fortunately PKRA has a large member base so a race like this will not break us. We have survived just fine in the past without them. Maybe you came from a smaller club that it had a larger impact on. |
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veerachart murphy
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 148
Location: United States, Arizona,
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Stewart Willis wrote: | You are a new member. You havent seen what damage the previous tire deal has done to the club. You say that I am being a bully. But, you are not privy to the private emails that the PKRA forums administrator has sent me. It was the PKRA forum admins that prevented me from speaking my part on the club forums. So, I brought it here.
- not defending anyone just saying that ecven this forum has rules that if you break you would also get suspended from this one
Bryan personally promised that all offers would be put on the table and considered. That did not happen. Which other importers were contacted and encouraged to participate? The answer is: None! If you knew the history of the previous tire deal and how that went down you would understand my feelings.
-your information is incomplete. You have enough information to make the BOD look like complete tools. But it's the missing pieces of information you don't have that will flop this back around on you. And I know you don't have all of the information otherwise you would not continue to carry on and on.
I am not smearing the club. I am not hellbent on destroying it. I am criticizing the decision maker and those who came after the fact to defend it. I am trying to show those who hurt the club with bad decisions and broken promises that they will not get a free pass at the expense of the membership.
-(see response above)
My loyalty to the club is not measured in how often we race there. My platinum membership speaks for itself. There is a huge population of racers in Phoenix that choose not to race at the club for various reasons. For us, the truth is that there are only two other cadets that are in the same league as my son. The club has done nothing to grow the sport or the races. They have made several decisions (refer to craig logsdon's PKRA post) to discourage air cooled cadet racing at PKRA, whichall of my son's buddys race.
-you have no one else to blame but yourselves for the growth of your sons class at PKRA. We understood you had a different agenda because you were in charge of Region 7 at the time. But it was the lack of communication between all parents in this class that has kept the class growth supressed.
I came into this season excited to race both Micromax and Minirok at PKRA to prepare for the COA and SKUSA races. I am in california right now for work as well as to pick up my MiniRoks, Micromax, and new second chassis that I was intending to race MiniRok on. But, now there is no need for a second chassis because I will not be attending a club series that 6 cadets have decided to skip.
-http://pkra.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3662&posts=21&start=1
remember this thread just like you were wrong about Rotax, you are wrong about this. I will say I was shocked to see you on one
The travel racers test and practice where we race. If we are not racing regional or national events at PKRA, then why would we race club races there in fields of 3 or 4? Its a waste of our time and limited resources. ... and I know you say that it is not the club's concern how much money we spend racing. But, their decision to break a promise has costed a dozen of us thousands of dollars each (Not to mention Pure Karting and Ruthless Motorsports who it will cost tens of thousands of dollars.)
- So even if PKC or Pro Tour wasn't coming here this year as it has not in many other years, these shops nor you were going to travel to them? I find that hard to believe. PKRA cost these people thousands? Really? Because PKRA moved the race?
I understand that you like the most races possible at PKRA. I felt that way our first year or two when we were starting out. But, we cannot fit racing a twice a month club race against 2-3 other racers into our schedule every time. We dont have the budget to race everything.
-nor do we. We pick and choose what we attend. So at the very least since I am on the board you would figure I would make a decision that benifited me. Well I did not. I made a decision on what the right thing to do was.
The PKRA schedule that was created this year was great. A bunch of us were super excited to race for the next few months in AZ. But, you have to understand that people's actions have consequences. They have to take responsibility for the decisions they make. Blasting decision makers is not the same as blasting the club.. The only reason that I am on here is because Randy Lyon banned me for the umpteenth time on the PKRA forums for speaking my mind. I do not allow myself to be bullied. I hold people accountable for their words and actions.
- I absolutely accept responsibility for my actions and decisions on the BOD. And now more than ever I stand behind them 100%. If anything with all the nonsense being thrown around on here I feel ever more justified.
You claim to be a journalist, investigate the facts before defending the indefensible. I know you feel like the hero right now by coming to the rescue of the Board. Just remember to own your words. Let me know Monday how they worked out for you. Have a good weekend.
-You can use some of your own advise. Outside of Cliff and Tom who else have you talked to? Do you not think that the "otherside" may have a different version of the story? |
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Chris Fosso
Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Matt Dixon wrote: | | Jeremiah Davis wrote: |
Why should the club or anyone else give a crap what it costs others to race? Please explain to me how that's their responsibility.
Last thing, before I go: if you or anyone else believes you know what it takes to run a club or sit on its Board of Directors, run for election next time it's up. Sit where they sit, make the decisions they make. It's a thankless job nearly all of the time. It's pretty easy to sit in your glass house. But I'd quit throwing stones. |
I guess I can speak up since I put in my tenure on a BoD,
WOW is that how you guys treat your members?
In the time I spend on the Bod we hosted a National event and multiple regionals. Those events generated over %40 of the clubs revenue. The Nationals even more then that, which all went back into the club to improve everything for who... the members. When we hosted a ProKart race the only thing we needed to deal with was the toilets and garbage service, Tom handled everything else and the CLUB cashed the check.
If you think that loosing these races is no big deal for your CLUB you are in denial.Do you think that the members of the CLUB don't have the right to be upset?
This year we are only going to AZ once now and that's Tuscan, a week ago I thought my family of 4 was going to be in Phx at least 8 days. That's some revenue that PRKA just lost to improve things for its Members... |
Matt
very well put... like the input
i live in AZ...and like PKRA track...
that is a bout as far as i will go on "likes"
the bottom line is:
i am going to start this with "i feel" or "my opinion"
1) SKUSA wanted to race here , as part of SoCal series and ProTour.
2) SKUSA is the "big kid on the block" as far as Karting organizations on west coast(or more)
3) someone in club(at PKRA should of pulled their head out of their A$$) and did what ever it took to bring events here,would of helped the greater good of karting(for both organizations)
4)cost AZ karters more money for 2013 to race at national events
5) gave other people in other parts of country the impression that either AZ. is a bunch of idiots or clueless.
6)every other tack/club/venue, whatever that SKUSA raced at for last few years that i have been with them..did not have this problem>? HMM>? go figure...dont know why PKRA thinks they are special.
and the people standing up for PKRA (BOD as they call it) are clueless .. and defending them blind.
another observation or scenario would be if i was a new karter(we will call him joe karter), and joe karter lived on the AZ /Cal. border
and he went out a purchased a brand new shifter kart and wanted to race it ,but did not know where or when or how many races he wanted to do, but was going to race some.
he thinks to self hmm ? what kind of tires should i buy? ,well let me go look where they race and what tires they use.
ok if i buy MG whites (for under 200 bucks a set) i can race at
button willow
willow springs
streets of lancaster
adams
cal speed
santa maria
P-1 (musselmans)
grand junction
las vegas
if i buy MG yellow (over 200 bucks a set)
PKRA
tough decision
chris
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 2013
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:31 am Post subject: |
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The tire monopoly is coming back to bite PKRA in the backside just like I said it would years ago.
Good luck guys....
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Steve Buckner
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Fosso wrote: | | Matt Dixon wrote: | | Jeremiah Davis wrote: |
Why should the club or anyone else give a crap what it costs others to race? Please explain to me how that's their responsibility.
Last thing, before I go: if you or anyone else believes you know what it takes to run a club or sit on its Board of Directors, run for election next time it's up. Sit where they sit, make the decisions they make. It's a thankless job nearly all of the time. It's pretty easy to sit in your glass house. But I'd quit throwing stones. |
I guess I can speak up since I put in my tenure on a BoD,
WOW is that how you guys treat your members?
In the time I spend on the Bod we hosted a National event and multiple regionals. Those events generated over %40 of the clubs revenue. The Nationals even more then that, which all went back into the club to improve everything for who... the members. When we hosted a ProKart race the only thing we needed to deal with was the toilets and garbage service, Tom handled everything else and the CLUB cashed the check.
If you think that loosing these races is no big deal for your CLUB you are in denial.Do you think that the members of the CLUB don't have the right to be upset?
This year we are only going to AZ once now and that's Tuscan, a week ago I thought my family of 4 was going to be in Phx at least 8 days. That's some revenue that PRKA just lost to improve things for its Members... |
Matt
very well put... like the input
i live in AZ...and like PKRA track...
that is a bout as far as i will go on "likes"
the bottom line is:
i am going to start this with "i feel" or "my opinion"
1) SKUSA wanted to race here , as part of SoCal series and ProTour.
2) SKUSA is the "big kid on the block" as far as Karting organizations on west coast(or more)3) someone in club(at PKRA should of pulled their head out of their A$$) and did what ever it took to bring events here,would of helped the greater good of karting(for both organizations)
4)cost AZ karters more money for 2013 to race at national events
5) gave other people in other parts of country the impression that either AZ. is a bunch of idiots or clueless.
6)every other tack/club/venue, whatever that SKUSA raced at for last few years that i have been with them..did not have this problem>? HMM>? go figure...dont know why PKRA thinks they are special.
and the people standing up for PKRA (BOD as they call it) are clueless .. and defending them blind.
chris |
Look at the results on Mylaps, PKC has been on the down slide for a few years now. LAKC had 180 drivers at its last race.
No, very close to the same thing happened at Calspeed. I want ALL the money for practice on Fri and I want to pay this much for the track on race day or I will take my business else where. Well, Cal Speed said, Go fly a kite.
One more thing for ya. One club was told if they use or state they use Skusa rules for spec Honda they would file a lawsuit agenst the club. So, the club had no choice but to comply and now the tires that they MUST use is the MG Whites, before it was open tire rules, guess where you can buy MG Whites from. Now that has been spun into we are working together with this club for the betterment of karting in So Cal. YA RIGHT REALLY.  I like to buy my tires from who I want to give my $$$$ to, not be told if you want to race here you have to buy them from the guy that is threatening lawsuits to this club.  |
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