Getting a new track built in my town.

John Matthews

Anybody got tips????

Seriously though I've gotten involved in local politics and there's a former shooting range in the process of being converted into a "park". I just went out there for the first time today and thought it would make a pretty crummy park but a great track.

I know it's a longshot but if I can get the right people interested we might be able to pull it off. At least I know it won't happen if I don't try....

Advice from anyone with recent experience getting a municipality to consider doing something like this please let me know.

Cheers,
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Benn Herr · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1580

Bring money. Sad

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Stu Hayner · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: Kart track

John,

I have no idea where to start, but I think the Traverse City area could use a track and it would be very successful. This past summer, I talked to the owners of an off road park along 115 about a track. Seemed interested, but they had no idea what a kart, say nothing of a track looked like. I suggested a kart track with rentals and a straight that could handle a 1/16 mi drag strip (w/shut off area) for snowmobiles in the winter.

I know a few people in that area that drive a long way with their karts and trailers.

You let me know if I can be of any help. I'd love to be involved and would jump on a plane next week to help.

Stu
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Rob Howden · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:55 am Post subject:

You know, this brings up a really productive opportunity for this industry and this sport. I think that we can all agree that the opening of any new kart track is absolutely HUGE for the sport. Anytime we can get more people into karting, and more people burning through consumables and buying new karts and equipment, it's good for our industry...and a healthy industry is important.

So can we use John's inquiry to put together some type of document on how anyone could go about pitching their city on a new track? I think this is the kind of document that that could be a work-in-progress, and one that could be used to help facilitate the building of a new venue. And if the works results in just one new track, IMO, it would be worth it. I'd be more than willing to help put this together.

I know that Benn's first comment was 'bring money'. That's a bit of a downer. Yes, it's the reality, but I don't see it as a big negative. If we're realistic about what it takes to build a track, it can still get done. Not every track in the country needs to be a Mooresville or a New Castle. Good, fun and important four-cycle racing doesn't need a mile-long track with garages and a restaurant. My club runs on a 40-second track on the infield of a 1/3 mile stock car oval and we've got 120+ members that spend money and love racing. I'd love to start compiling the numbers on what it would take for a city to put in a 1/2 mile track with a couple containers for storage and work trailer for timing and offices. It's not glamorous, but it's racing....and that's all we should care about.
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John Matthews · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:10 am Post subject:

Thanks for the encouragement Benn Laughing

There are a few ways to get the money but I think first I need to get the township open to considering something like this. Unfortunately whenever you start talking about tracks people immediately start worrying about noise and liability. Beyond that there's the whole zoning issue, etc. etc. etc.

I think I'm just gonna ask if the trustees are open to new plans and see where I can go from there.

Up here (Northwest Lower Michigan) there are tons of great parks and open spaces already, to my mind having yet another park I have to pay for that I'll never use is kinda pointless.

What I'd really like is for anyone that might be interested in participating to send me a PM, or if you know someone not on the forum get me their contact info.

Cheers,
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Walt Gifford · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:25 am Post subject:

You have to go around and talk to the individuals involved in making decisions separately way before any town meeting. It's like that movie Inception.
If you just come in cold it's going to be info overload and they'll just defer to the safe position which is refusing your idea.

Gif Cool

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Dennis Chappell · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:14 pm Post subject: New track

John

I know someone here in MI. who was on his way to getting a track built. He was doing everything right, had meeting with a track owner (Mark Dismore) for info. checked number of people in area to support a track, plans for track drew up, land picked out, people with money on board, than had a family illness and had to give up on his dream. So it can be done if you do your home work. Good luck.

Dennis

John Matthews · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject:

Bill Cox · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:00 pm Post subject:

When Rocky Moran (Sr. & Jr.) were in the process of getting their track approved, designed, built in Riverside County, California, they did a ton of research and work.
Maybe someone has their contact info...or they are still connected to EKN.
They would be a great resource for you to tap into.
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Russell Stevens · Joined: 15 Oct 2012 Posts: 100

My wife does land use and development work for the company we work for. Her Father was a real estate attourney, and council for a number of municipalities. We socialize with a lot of land use folks and attourneys. We were also involved in a local ATV club and went through some of this sort of thing trying to get an off road riding area. Let me share some of what I learned.
1) Do not talk to anyone in govt. till you have a solid plan to present. There will be those who will not want to have a track. They will be nice and posative to your face, then work behind the scenes to build a case for denial. Keep your cards close to your chest.
2) Find out how many potential karters will be drawn to a track, calculate potential revenue for the municipality from the track, and increased traffic for local businesses. The ORV system in MI is great, contact the DNR and see if they have any interest in helping to build an ORV area with paved sections, or can offer suggestions. Keep it as non-specific as you can even with the DNR for now.
3) Use google maps and plot out a potential track with dirt offshoots for the motards, a dirt oval, and anything else that can be safely added. The more potential users, the better your chances.
4) Find out how much it will cost to build, and run. Rough estimates are ok here, but you need to call insurance, and paving companies.
5) Talk to local kart shops about it. Get signatures of anyone who would potentially attend events.
6) Get on the agenda with a proposal. Present it as a business plan. Having some photo simulations (find a collage student to do them on the cheap or free to add to their portfolio) of what the development might look like, a brief introduction to the sports that the complex will support, and a bullet point business plan for the complex.
7) Go to a few town meetings, and see what works and what doesn't with the counsel. Follow the outline of what is working.
Cool

Befreind the councel before you go on the agenda. Shmooze them and discuss the plan after you have presented it officially.
9) If you get get MI DNR to manage the track that will be a HUGE plus. It takes a lot off the hands of the local govt.

Good luck.
Rusty

Ted Hamilton · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject:

You may want to investigate http://www.grasspass.org 's section on land use and liability. In many states, designating an area of your own land as "park" waives the need for personal liability insurance in case something stupid and unforeseen happens (kids break in and get hurt trespassing with their kart or other vehicle or ??!!). Just beware that "posted" and "trespassing" often disappear with the "park" designation too. Just a resource...

I'm looking for a local area with no zoning to begin a similar project...

I often wonder if karting is too fast for its' own good -- the old tracks in the 70's were 20-24' wide (two paver widths) with no curbs and narrower karts that were slower, but I can't say that the racing was any less intense or fun... Smile

Perhaps narrower and shorter tracks featuring 4-cycles with no bodywork and clones is the way to go? Smile

I'd sign up.... Good luck!
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John Matthews · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:46 pm Post subject:

Grasspass is cool but where I'm at the soil is too sandy, we need asphalt or a whole bunch of clay brought in. Also I've been to too many dirt races where the track isn't prepared right, the last one was literally a mud bog. Plus, there's a definite advantage to being able to practice without somebody running a water truck truck around and having to pack for 45 minutes.

The other thing is I want something that will be around in 30 years. I've been trying to get a Grasspass track going for years but I don't own a suitable piece of land and haven't run across the right land owner. It's a great concept and works well some places but for karting to thrive we need to build new club based tracks. Private land owners can always decide to get out of it, or be forced out, but tracks that are operated by strong clubs with long leases from municipalities are the most stable and allow an infrastructure to build up around them.

I'll answer the "too fast" question in your other thread but definitely smaller facilities should be easier to build and for many racers offer just as much fun as the big tracks.

Keep the good ideas coming Very Happy

Cheers,
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Howie Idelson · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject:

I'm in a similar situation with my land. I own 60 acres in Los Angeles county that is perfect for a track. I have a concept and for the facility and now looking for a financial partner. It would be great to have a network on here to share ideas. Feel free to contact me with any ideas.
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Paul Makarucha · Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:48 am Post subject:

David Lehmann · Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject:

I have a complete business plan for this that I would share.

If you don't know anyone on your city council or county council that may be willing to help then go talk talk to your chamber of commerce and find out the names of those in the city that may be champions of your cause. The chamber will like your idea and refer you to "the right people" if they exist.
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