JA/JB 2013 engine regs

Adam Fuhs · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:52 am Post subject: JA/JB 2013 engine regs

From what I gather we are stuck running the WF engine from 2013 onwards in JA/JB, right?

I remember when the talks were going around about this and I didn't like the idea than and I still don't. The reason being is it limits the kids on what they can race. With the WF engine they really can only do Solo until they hit 15 than they can finally compete in a road race series. Where as with the KT100 they can do both at 8 and onwards.

My oldest son is moving from JC to JB next year and I am really torn on what to do. He is getting bored with Solo and wants to move on to road/sprint racing but, my 6 year old still wants to do Solo as well as road race. In fact both do but, now with the new engine regs for Solo my 8 yo has to choose whether to stay with Solo or move onto w2w.

My other hurdle is should I get him a cadet chassis or a full size? From what I've heard and read, the WF engine takes some work to make a cadet chassis compatible where as the cadet accepts a KT100 no problem.

I would have much rather seen the WF introduced along side the KT100 to allow kids to be able to compete in different racing series rather than just one or the other.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject:

No fear, as I understand it you can still run the KT-100 in JB and JA along side all the other engines that were legal last year including Rotax Micro or Mini max. And actually this was the direction we did last year.

swapping motors between JB WF for cone dodging and Mini Max for sprint racing. I got quite good at it. Confused

we have a few more events till my son turns 13 and then it will be Lead it up to the tune of 100 pounds worth and re-learn the whole deal.

Our local sprint junior races are LO206. or rotax Junior max 20 HP for the 13 yr olds. Pretty damn fast karts.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Adam Fuhs · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject:

Thats what I thought as well - the WF is allowed along with all the others but, in talking with both Scott and Brian it sounds like WFs are the only allowable engine Question

My fear isn't having to swap motors, although that would be a PITA, its having to buy 2 motors in the first place. Buying a Solo specific motor is just plain dumb when no other organization allows them, at least at JA/JB ages.

As far as the chassis - cadet or full size? If the KT100 is allowed than I', leaning towards a Cadet since my son will fit better than sticking him in a big, full size kart.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject:

Fit the chassis to the kid. After College station NT we will probably be moving out of the Birel Cadet.

shoot me a PM.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Larry MacLeod · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject:

I don't believe the WF proposal was ever accepted. I think it was tabled for further discussion. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

As for chassis, you can run small kids on full-sized chassis if you use a pedal riser kit like a Noonan (that's the one I used when my son was 9). The benefit is you won't need to buy a new chassis as the kid gets older. But if you're looking to jump between solo and road-race then I'd go with whatever you prefer for road-race, and adapt backwards for solo (if required).

My son runs a KT100 in FJA. There's a chance my daughter might run some events in 2013, likely in the same kart but set up for JB (small carb). I have no plans to ever buy a WF unless my local KT builder suddenly goes out of business.

Larry
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Scott Boito · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject:

Adam, I believe I said specifically that the SEB still wants to go toward the WF as the standard but they've decided to go a more relaxed route to make the WF the favored motor over the others. The way this is being done is by probably making it favorable by weight adjustments. We'll be heading that way next season because the writing is on the wall.
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Karl Hughes · Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 20

I've found the WF engine to be wonderful in terms of low maintenance, easy starting, etc. My son happily runs autocrosses now, and so far has not shown any interest in w2w. If he did, we would have a problem because the local series have no place for him to run the WF. He turns 12 in a few weeks, so for the coming season he will run against the local (faster) JA kids for the first time, and he'll be the only four-stroke driver. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

From a single-use, autocross-only point of view, WF is great. With no local road racing for the WF, we'd have to switch engines or own a second kart if he wanted to run wheel to wheel, which is not attractive.

For adults here, the situation is the same. Nobody road races shifters, so most KM karters here run TaG or KT-100, and get slaughtered on PAX. Many of our local karters do both solo and w2w, and none of them own a kart for each. So, they tend to optimize for w2w, and autocross gets second billing.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:50 am Post subject:

Same thing here Karl, sprint track runs LO206 for kids up to 15 yrs old. or Mini Max Junior Max. Those are the choices.

I have 2 karts now shifter for banging on cones and Rotax Sr for W2W.

Keep the kid interested as they turn 12 ish. Mine has lost interest and I now have 2 karts for sale at killin me discounts.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Adam Fuhs · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:09 pm Post subject:

Scott Boito · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:11 am Post subject:

I think I explained myself pretty well. The WF will be the favored motor going forward because the SEB wants a non-smoking, quiet, easy to start and hard-to-stall motor instead of the 2-strokes that currently dominate that are loud, stall frequently (relative to a 4-stroke at least), and smoke.

Kieran will be running a WF from this season onward - but we don't have the W2W opportunities here that we had when we were up there... Sad

If we were still there he'd be running the KT100 this season, but ultimately switching to WF due to the weight difference in JA for those two. Then likely we'd go back to two karts and keep the KT100 for racing.

Get a full-size chassis (28 or 30 mm) and save yourself the trouble of buying it next year when he's too big for the cadet. Kieran even as small as he is fit better in the full-size than his cadet, which made it easier to distribute the weight for perfect balance. The cadet was a real bear due to the amount of lead we needed to add and we ran out of space and had an unbalanced kart that year. Moved the seat close, get a pedal riser setup (Noonan, etc), and you can keep that same chassis for the next 8 yrs.
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Adam Fuhs · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:30 am Post subject:

So the reason for the WF is a less smoky engine, quieter engine? That's lame... I hope the KAC doesn't so something similar to KM. God knows those engines smoke and are loud. I understand the stalling bit though. Most local KT100s barely run but, that's due to the owners not the engines.

I'm really torn between a cadet and a full size. Cadets are easy to find but a full size for a 8 yo is proving nearly impossible. 32mm chassis are everywhere but 28mms aren't. Now the KAC wants to use an engine that really can only be used for Solo?

Ugh... It shouldn't be this hard to get setup for JB. It was much, much easier for JC.

Scott Boito · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:46 am Post subject:

It has been explained to the KAC that the future of the junior program is tied to it being (perceived as) more friendly to other competitors as much as to the dads and kids. A big part of this is friendly motors. The clone motor for JB is a part of this effort (unbeknownst to me when we did the work to get the data) because it's cheap, quiet, and easy to start and doesn't stall. The ideal situation for the SEB would be a clone motor for all oof the junior classes, but I already argued against that since the clone can become grenades when you build them (and more expensive than the motors we already have).

The move to the World Formula is seen by SEB as a way to get everything they want while keeping everyone happy with fewer "delayed" events, quieter grids and more relaxed competitors and dads. The current and recently past KAC agree with some of this but have consistently mentioned that the WF is a left-coast motor with few sprint series in the other 3/4 of the country and trying to mandate the motor would not do the junior program any favors. Thus the switch from it being a mandated motor to a more favored motor by weight adjustments.

I saw the writing on the wall and we dove in to the WF camp. But we don't have the sprint series to consider so it was easier for us to decide. Regardless, the weight differential in JA would have been enough to get us to WF next year anyway.
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Larry MacLeod · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:51 am Post subject:

Are there any openings on the KAC? I'm almost to the point where I need to get involved to put an end to this SEB driven BS.

Larry
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Larry MacLeod · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:52 am Post subject:

(double post)

Jason Vehige · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:11 am Post subject:

Larry.. To have the effect you are looking for skip the KAC and apply for the SEB... The KAC is an advisory committee ... Ultimately the SEB has the final decision on pretty much everything.

Unofficially and IMHO I am glad we still have motor choices in the jr classes
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