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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 415
Location: United States, Florida,
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2931
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Not to rain on your parade, but every org I ever ran with bikes, cars, karts, state water only in the cooling system, and you may add water wetter type product. This product has no water in it. It could be a great product, but you would have to see if there's anything slippery in it, and "IF" you can get it approved for use on the track.
CR
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East Coast Super Kart Series
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CR2 Motorsports
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Roger Miller
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 2917
Location: United States, California, San Jose
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| They have some reports posted on the home page and the DeTox report is all about Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol, so this wouldn't be allowed in any karting sanction that I am aware of. |
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 415
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | Not to rain on your parade, but every org I ever ran with bikes, cars, karts, state water only in the cooling system, and you may add water wetter type product. This product has no water in it. It could be a great product, but you would have to see if there's anything slippery in it, and "IF" you can get it approved for use on the track.
CR |
You love raining on my parade LOL
Brian |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2931
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Degulis wrote: | | Chris Reinhardt wrote: | Not to rain on your parade, but every org I ever ran with bikes, cars, karts, state water only in the cooling system, and you may add water wetter type product. This product has no water in it. It could be a great product, but you would have to see if there's anything slippery in it, and "IF" you can get it approved for use on the track.
CR |
You love raining on my parade LOL
Brian |
Actually not, that was a good find, too bad it won't work for our application. That would work fine on a motocross, or woods bike....
CR
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East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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joseph hollinger
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 9479
Location: United States, California, san francisco
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: | | Brian Degulis wrote: | | Chris Reinhardt wrote: | Not to rain on your parade, but every org I ever ran with bikes, cars, karts, state water only in the cooling system, and you may add water wetter type product. This product has no water in it. It could be a great product, but you would have to see if there's anything slippery in it, and "IF" you can get it approved for use on the track.
CR |
You love raining on my parade LOL
Brian |
Actually not, that was a good find, too bad it won't work for our application. That would work fine on a motocross, or woods bike....
CR |
It's really hard to imagine why it would work. I mean, I'm just working from memory but my understanding is that the specific heat capacity of water is about 3X of glycol.
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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill. |
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Brian Degulis
Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 415
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't understand how it works either but the Motocross guys use it and claim it drops the temp 25-40 more than water.
Brian |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1990
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Brian Degulis wrote: | I don't understand how it works either but the Motocross guys use it and claim it drops the temp 25-40 more than water.
Brian |
That's a pretty big claim, peggs my BS meter for sure.
Their website claims that the coolant won't overheat, what exactly does that mean? If it means that it won't vaporize at any temperature what happens when it gets above the melting point of aluminum?
It might be the best product ever but at ~ $105 more than distilled water I don't think I'm gonna test it out any time soon 
Redline has been making waterweter for a long time and it's accepted by most racing orgs so if there were some kind of magic out there I'll bet their chemists would have it on the market by now.
Reality is that engineers design cooling systems to work with H20 since it's available everywhere and has known properties. Remember, cooler is better only up to a certain point. Your engine needs to get up to temp to make max power so cooling 40 degrees below normal operating temp will hurt performance. If you're running 40 degrees above recommended temp you should check your mixture and/or timing.
It's pretty easy to get your buddies to go onto a forum and make claims that you don't have to back up, not that that's what's happening here but maybe on the motox forum?
Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Andre Eriksen
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 388
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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In the company I work for, we ship more than 40,000 liquid cooling systems a month. They are actually pretty similar to a kart setup in the sense there is an aluminum radiator, a pump and some rubber tubes (on a side note, we get screwed on the radiator cost! A Rotax style radiator costs $10 - $15 in China, I know because we buy half a million a year out there).
We have invested a lot of money in custom engineered fluids over time as what we make a living of is selling cooling performance and hence the better heat transfer in the liquid can turn in to $$$ for us. Our thermal engineers in both Europe and US have tested countless fluids and mixes.
As our systems are shipped world wide and on airplanes we need to have antifreeze and glycol etc. definitely makes cooling performance worse.
Water IS the best - period. We have also tried "nanotechnology" fluids with additives, no better results than water.
Recently we have begun to have our fluid made in the US and we are actually looking in to a fluid for karting/cars that will be water based but not with glycol but with anti bacteria/algae and corrosion protection. This fluid you will be able to flush and re use all you want, your stuff will look like new on the inside and it will not grease the track up if you spill it.
We will ship out some free samples when we are ready for people to try it out and see what they say but from a pure cooling perspective, there is absolutely no reason to look beyond water...
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2012 Formula Car Challenge Vice Champion (Pro Formula Mazda)
2011 Rotax DD2 Masters National Points Champion
2011 NorCal DD2 Masters Vice Champion
2010 NorCal Rotax Masters Champion
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patrick slattery
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 787
Location: United States, Ohio, cleves
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Andre Eriksen wrote: | In the company I work for, we ship more than 40,000 liquid cooling systems a month. They are actually pretty similar to a kart setup in the sense there is an aluminum radiator, a pump and some rubber tubes (on a side note, we get screwed on the radiator cost! A Rotax style radiator costs $10 - $15 in China, I know because we buy half a million a year out there).
We have invested a lot of money in custom engineered fluids over time as what we make a living of is selling cooling performance and hence the better heat transfer in the liquid can turn in to $$$ for us. Our thermal engineers in both Europe and US have tested countless fluids and mixes.
As our systems are shipped world wide and on airplanes we need to have antifreeze and glycol etc. definitely makes cooling performance worse.
Water IS the best - period. We have also tried "nanotechnology" fluids with additives, no better results than water.
Recently we have begun to have our fluid made in the US and we are actually looking in to a fluid for karting/cars that will be water based but not with glycol but with anti bacteria/algae and corrosion protection. This fluid you will be able to flush and re use all you want, your stuff will look like new on the inside and it will not grease the track up if you spill it.
We will ship out some free samples when we are ready for people to try it out and see what they say but from a pure cooling perspective, there is absolutely no reason to look beyond water... |
Isn't water with a water weter better than straight water better at cooling? |
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Andre Eriksen
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 388
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps in a drag racer or something like that. In a go kart no, in a computer liquid cooling system no. We have used a lot of it in the past for its anti corrosion properties.
_________________
2012 Formula Car Challenge Vice Champion (Pro Formula Mazda)
2011 Rotax DD2 Masters National Points Champion
2011 NorCal DD2 Masters Vice Champion
2010 NorCal Rotax Masters Champion
www.viking-racing.com
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2931
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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Russell Stevens
Joined: 15 Oct 2012
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| How about passing on some inexpensive radiators to the community... {puppy eyes} |
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Andre Eriksen
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 388
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I will look at it next time I am in China. Problem is that I do not really have time/desire to start making mounts, selling, support etc. But I will ask next time I meet with one of our vendors out there. For Rotax it doesn't make sense as it would be illegal but that does not change the fact, that what they are selling for $400 would be less than $100 even with a big margin for Rotax, distribution as well as reselling.
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2012 Formula Car Challenge Vice Champion (Pro Formula Mazda)
2011 Rotax DD2 Masters National Points Champion
2011 NorCal DD2 Masters Vice Champion
2010 NorCal Rotax Masters Champion
www.viking-racing.com
http://www.facebook.com/VikingRacing |
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Russell Stevens
Joined: 15 Oct 2012
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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The mounts are the easy part for the kart owner to make or come up with. Look at what we do already to make a chassis fit under a seat.
An inexpensive radiator with bolt tabs welded on, threaded inlet and outlet to allow the end user to attach whatever fitting they wanted, (and dare I say a curtain or shutters on the front). I mean really CRG how much does it cost you to make that stupid curtain. Thanks in advance for asking the supplier. Inexpensive parts that work are hard to come by in the motorsports industry.
Thanks
Rusty |
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